[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Faroth]

Why would you want/need 3 tanks for A1S light farm? Can't most groups kill it basically as they split?

Also how is spamming a raid that no one needs loot from or that poses no actual challenge fun?

If you're not doing it THAT much, it's kinda fun to see how fast you can burn him and try to beat that time. Though that is only amusing for so long. I only had to farm him for the 2nd half of my light and I think it was maybe 4 hours total across 2-3 days so I never felt like it was much of a burn out.

[dope_danny]

Well finally got my DRK Relic to 260 and the light step. First thing i do is Sohm Al HM and on the final boss its first flying press is against a monk that uses her charge at the same time and the boss bugs out and gets stuck midair and cant touch us, so i drop my tank stance and we nuke it and it never does another move like hiss.

cant remember the last time i saw a boss bug out like this, but i hear fast dps can make thordan do some crazy shit too.

[Anzaman]

After running too many Sohm Al's to get DRK and WAR from 53 to 55.. WAR naturally decided to stop at 1% away from level at end of dungeon.

At least it's reset soon, so I'll just do trial roulette or something.

[Eleccybubb]

Welp swapped my entire payment methods over to Steam Wallet for FF14. Good thing I actually bought the Steam version .

On another note. Deneb on AST. Fucking loving this healer so far.

[dope_danny]

AST is best healer. Thats just science

[Deleted]

esport shouldn't even exist but it brings money so yeah

Why though? Its really fun to watch

[Wrecktangle]

If you're not doing it THAT much, it's kinda fun to see how fast you can burn him and try to beat that time. Though that is only amusing for so long. I only had to farm him for the 2nd half of my light and I think it was maybe 4 hours total across 2-3 days so I never felt like it was much of a burn out.

4 hours total = how many pulls? I'd imagine probably 2-3 minute kill timers with quality players/classes. So you figure for resetting and reentering + Faust you're looking like 6 minutes a pull? At least 10 pulls an hour, so over 40 pulls of the same boss over 2 days? Over 40 Pulls over 2 days of the same boss, that provides no loot, currency, or engagement/challenge...

That sounds like as much fun as contracting an STD. There's no other way Yoshi could make the relic weapon chain engaging?

[Kazgrel]

Why would you want/need 3 tanks for A1S light farm? Can't most groups kill it basically as they split?

Also how is spamming a raid that no one needs loot from or that poses no actual challenge fun?

A1S was really fun to progress on, but speed farming it sounds fucking terrible to me lol.

A1S is the HW equivalent to Garuda HM or whatever people spam run for the light farming step of the ARR relic weapon back in the day, only now it's for the anima weapon (to go from ilvl 260 to 270). A1S is so faceroll at this point that the ideal comp is 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps, but it ends up being the ass opposite problem most group forming normally is; for the light farm, there are tanks and healers out the wazoo and dps is the role that is "adventurer in need", so to speak, especially with all the PF groups that are hellbent on running with no less than 5 dps. I've had 3 tank 2 heal 3 dps groups clear it in 3-3.5 mins; full 6 dps groups, assuming all the dps know how to push buttons properly (a big assumption, of course) clear it about a minute faster...which when considering it's around 90 runs during bonus window to complete the light farm, it would be nice to have those 90 extra minutes saved.

It's far from fun, but it's also by far the fastest way to farm light for the weapon, although I have read that groups have started popping up for A9S, which while not as fast as A1S, it's very close, but also allows folks to obtain 270 accessories and belts, many of which are best in slot (which is largely irrelevant now, but if it helps leveling in SB, why not).

[The Casualty]

4 hours total = how many pulls? I'd imagine probably 2-3 minute kill timers with quality players/classes. So you figure for resetting and reentering + Faust you're looking like 6 minutes a pull? At least 10 pulls an hour, so over 40 pulls of the same boss over 2 days? Over 40 Pulls over 2 days of the same boss, that provides no loot, currency, or engagement/challenge...

That sounds like as much fun as contracting an STD. There's no other way Yoshi could make the relic weapon chain engaging?

To be fair, that particular dungeon isn't required at all for the farm. It's just mathematically one of the better ones for a random person. I think it's something like 1/10th of a rune on bonus. You could just go about your regular content and get it that way. Pretty much everything from HW will get you aetheric condensation.

And if you want to speed clear your anima, and do harder content - A12S on bonus. That is nearly half a rune per clear for a (now after echo) easily a 10 minute fight or less.

Really though what's the point in getting it NOW for the vast majority of people? The average player isn't doing savage or at least not past the first floor or two, so everything is pretty much trivial even without a 275 weapon. By now everyone has at least a 260 weapon from shire gear if they've been 60 for a while, and a full set of augmented gear at least for their main job. This already blows everything that they might do out of the water.

No one is making anyone spam that one dungeon but them.

[Faroth]

4 hours total = how many pulls? I'd imagine probably 2-3 minute kill timers with quality players/classes. So you figure for resetting and reentering + Faust you're looking like 6 minutes a pull? At least 10 pulls an hour, so over 40 pulls of the same boss over 2 days? Over 40 Pulls over 2 days of the same boss, that provides no loot, currency, or engagement/challenge...

That sounds like as much fun as contracting an STD. There's no other way Yoshi could make the relic weapon chain engaging?

Bear in mind this isn't Yoshida designing it so you run a repeat pull 40 times. They don't go into it saying "man, how can we make this as grindy as possible?"

That's the PLAYER'S choice and they have shown they will do it EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. They're going to look, actively, for the fastest, least resistance method to do this. It's really designed that you'll finish it over time by doing things you're already doing anyway.

I got my first half by running Void Ark/Weeping City/Dun Scaith accumulating the coins to upgrade my tomestone gear along with some PvP with a friend and some EX runs. That was just running along doing things for other purposes and getting light as a result. As Casualty noted, Alex Savage accumulates light much faster so raiders have the far advantage in the "accumulate as you do other things" method, I think.

I feel that's more what the intent is for this, but players are going to number crunch and theorycraft to figure out the easiest, fastest, and most braindead option possible and prioritize that.

And the boss didn't provide new loot, but I now have a mountain of drops that are keeping me well fed on GC seals that I'm using to send my squadron out.
- - - Updated - - -

No one is making anyone spam that one dungeon but them.

Pretty much this. Players choose to take the grindy method because "it's the most efficient" in their mind.

I only did it because it was the last push I needed to knock out being done with my main goals for Heavensward so I could play more console games until Stormblood.

[The Casualty]

After 2 weeks of regular clears for Savage and 2 clears of Dun Scaith and that right there was half of my runes for things I was going to do anyhow. I did maybe 30 clears of a combination of A4/A1S and a few A9S to help some people out, but I wasn't in a rush. It's not like you absolutely have to have this stuff to do content.

I'm only sad that I got the Lux axe before I could buy the Alexandrian one, because I chose to buy the fending chest as that was a bigger upgrade and that also didn't drop. Like 20 some weeks of drops and now we farm A12S for extra weapons and I *still* haven't seen it, and eventually just resigned myself and used pages to get it if only for glamour.

[Wrecktangle]

It's far from fun, but it's also by far the fastest way to farm light for the weapon

That's really all I needed to see. Thanks for the honesty.

To be fair, that particular dungeon isn't required at all for the farm. It's just mathematically one of the better ones for a random person. I think it's something like 1/10th of a rune on bonus. You could just go about your regular content and get it that way. Pretty much everything from HW will get you aetheric condensation. No one is making anyone spam that one dungeon but them.

On one hand I agree that no one is making anyone spam it. However if you have a goal and your goal is time limited (i.e. Light bonus event) it makes sense to do it right? The point of my post was to say is there truly no other way Yoshi can make this type of content engaging?

I think they can do better.

Let's say I take the slow approach and play the "way" I want to play. How long would it take me to acquire said weapon? How much time am sanity am I saving vs. time lost?

- - - Updated - - -

Bear in mind this isn't Yoshida designing it so you run a repeat pull 40 times. They don't go into it saying "man, how can we make this as grindy as possible?"

The developer is responsible for some of this though. It's true that SQEX isn't telling you what to do, but they created a mathematical formula that says doing X is by far the most efficient use of your time if you desire to meet this goal. They should have put more effort into balancing the content approaches so that there aren't 2-3 massively ridiculous outliers. Especially once you factor in difficulty if there's 2-3 things that give similar returns, but one requires an avg iq of 46, and the others require 80, which one are people going to default to?

[The Casualty]

Let's say I take the slow approach and play the "way" I want to play. How long would it take me to acquire said weapon? How much time am sanity am I saving vs. time lost?

Not that I disagree with how Relic weapons *could* be, but their design choice seems to be as long as you have time you can get one, little to no skill required - but I'm not sure what you mean by "time lost"

Time lost with what? Not having the weapon? If you only did your daily roulettes, weekly 24 mans and maybe the WT weekly of whatever HW stuff you could easily get in excess of 2 runes a week (being fairly conservative here). So you get it in 3-5 weeks opposed to 1-2 days. What exactly have you lost by getting it a few weeks later? The glamour? Clearing those roulettes just a bit faster so you can do what exactly?

If you actually needed it for progression, then you were clearly getting far above and beyond the 2 runes a week just based on how much aetheric condensation Savage gives.

[Kazgrel]

To be fair, that particular dungeon isn't required at all for the farm. It's just mathematically one of the better ones for a random person. I think it's something like 1/10th of a rune on bonus. You could just go about your regular content and get it that way. Pretty much everything from HW will get you aetheric condensation.

And if you want to speed clear your anima, and do harder content - A12S on bonus. That is nearly half a rune per clear for a (now after echo) easily a 10 minute fight or less.

Really though what's the point in getting it NOW for the vast majority of people? The average player isn't doing savage or at least not past the first floor or two, so everything is pretty much trivial even without a 275 weapon. By now everyone has at least a 260 weapon from shire gear if they've been 60 for a while, and a full set of augmented gear at least for their main job. This already blows everything that they might do out of the water.

No one is making anyone spam that one dungeon but them.

I believe all of Creator Savage rewards same amount of light for those weapons; hardened is the normal amount, stalwart being the bonus amount.

I would almost ask "why bother with anima weapon if you can farm A12S?", but then I remember how amazing that DRK weapon from A12S is...

Only reasons to do anima at this point are for glamour and for the reasonable possibility that a 275 anima will be able to be exchanged to get a head start on the SB equivalent of the relic/anima weapon process.

[The Casualty]

I believe all of Creator Savage rewards same amount of light for those weapons; hardened is the normal amount, stalwart being the bonus amount.

I want to say A11 and 12 give more than 9 and 10, but it's been a while and I don't have a new anima to try it out with. And yeah that Alexandrian Greatsword is hot garbage. It dropped last night, and I think I begrudgingly took it for glamour/retainer purposes, but I'd never actually use it.

[Wrecktangle]

but I'm not sure what you mean by "time lost"

Time lost with what? Not having the weapon? If you only did your daily roulettes, weekly 24 mans and maybe the WT weekly of whatever HW stuff you could easily get in excess of 2 runes a week (being fairly conservative here). So you get it in 3-5 weeks opposed to 1-2 days. What exactly have you lost by getting it a few weeks later? The glamour? Clearing those roulettes just a bit faster so you can do what exactly?.

Time lost as a measure of doing normal content vs. spam farming 1 boss over a short amount of time.

So let's say 5 weeks vs. 2-3 days? That's a lot of time lost, but it's also a ton of sanity saved ha. It's not about needing the weapon its about completing a specific goal and having options to pursue that goal. If I choose X what do I get. If I choose Y what do I get. Does that make sense?

I don't think someone should be able to spam something and complete a step in 2-3 days. Content like this should have been more normalized so that you can choose what content you want to do (and earn rewards from, etc.) while contributing to your count in a meaningful and fair manner.

[Kaelwryn]

I want to say A11 and 12 give more than 9 and 10, but it's been a while and I don't have a new anima to try it out with. And yeah that Alexandrian Greatsword is hot garbage. It dropped last night, and I think I begrudgingly took it for glamour/retainer purposes, but I'd never actually use it.

No, all stages of the same tier have the same light. AS1-4 is sturdy with robust bonus, AS5-8 is unknown but assumed to be one higher (robust with harden bonus) and AS9-12 is as Kazela said.

[Kazgrel]

Time lost as a measure of doing normal content vs. spam farming 1 boss over a short amount of time.

So let's say 5 weeks vs. 2-3 days? That's a lot of time lost, but it's also a ton of sanity saved ha. It's not about needing the weapon its about completing a specific goal and having options to pursue that goal. If I choose X what do I get. If I choose Y what do I get. Does that make sense?

I don't think someone should be able to spam something and complete a step in 2-3 days. Content like this should have been more normalized so that you can choose what content you want to do (and earn rewards from, etc.) while contributing to your count in a meaningful and fair manner.

If someone began an anima weapon today, they could complete it before Stormblood. That said, you'd have to play a bit pretty much every day in order to make progress fast enough to meet that "deadline", and some parts would definitely feel grindy minus the aforementioned light grind (which you wouldn't have to spam run a single dungeon for), but it would be doable.

My opinion, though, is if someone were just getting to 60 at this point, I'd run Palace of the Dead until I had a Kinna weapon (ilvl 255), then if I wanted better I'd go for Zurvan EX weapons (265) and call it a day, if one is specifically after a weapon for power gain.

[Faroth]

The developer is responsible for some of this though. It's true that SQEX isn't telling you what to do, but they created a mathematical formula that says doing X is by far the most efficient use of your time if you desire to meet this goal. They should have put more effort into balancing the content approaches so that there aren't 2-3 massively ridiculous outliers. Especially once you factor in difficulty if there's 2-3 things that give similar returns, but one requires an avg iq of 46, and the others require 80, which one are people going to default to?

I've yet to see a single MMO ever do this in any way, shape, or form. The players ALWAYS find the fastest, most mathematically efficient method. Devs never seem able to balance it so everything is precisely balanced. Try hard savage raiders will rage on the forums if they aren't given the most efficient method (nevermind they already have BETTER weapons, they still bitch) and casual players complain they're punished with long time sinks if they don't have a faster farm method.

As the conversations here have repeatedly proven, the only way to win at this is to shut down the game because people are going to bitch no matter what.

If the light window isn't active, I personally felt the A1S wasn't worth it. It's only during the RNG window that it becomes advantageous imo. I'd rather run dungeons or 24 mans and get bonus rewards if I'm focused on light outside of the A1S bonus window myself.

[Wrecktangle]

I've yet to see a single MMO ever do this in any way, shape, or form. The players ALWAYS find the fastest, most mathematically efficient method. Devs never seem able to balance it so everything is precisely balanced. Try hard savage raiders will rage on the forums if they aren't given the most efficient method (nevermind they already have BETTER weapons, they still bitch) and casual players complain they're punished with long time sinks if they don't have a faster farm method.

As the conversations here have repeatedly proven, the only way to win at this is to shut down the game because people are going to bitch no matter what.

If the light window isn't active, I personally felt the A1S wasn't worth it. It's only during the RNG window that it becomes advantageous imo. I'd rather run dungeons or 24 mans and get bonus rewards if I'm focused on light outside of the A1S bonus window myself.

You're being purposefully obtuse I feel. You know for a fact I didn't say precisely balanced. I said removing clear and ridiculous outliers. I just watched WoW do it when they nerfed shorter dungeons resource gain and buffed longer ones to even them out. Sure it's not perfect, but removing outliers is necessary for the health of a game. I've seen other games do it as well. Even FF14 does it with its roulette/tomestone system (leveling dungeons/scenarios usually take longer than trials, hence why trials give less).

Imagine if there was a roulette that could be spammed that gave 500 poetics and 250 lore every time you did it. Everyone would do it. Imagine if all you had to do was join in and kill a level 60 turtle with no mechanics and didn't fight back. Then EVERYONE would be doing it nonstop. Can't have outliers like this. That's all I am saying.

I just want choices to be meaningful and engaging. A1S light farm is neither. It is merely efficient. That's fine if its a little bit more efficient because it offers absolutely nothing else. I'd like to see it brought in line with other activities, even if it's still the best I can skip doing it and not feel like my goal is getting further away rather than closer.

What exactly does "tryhard" mean in the above context? It almost feels derogatory the way you're saying it, but I fail to see how someone trying harder is a bad thing. I don't think I've seen savage raiders on the forums raging (does posting constitute raging? or is it more in depth than that?) For instance if you were describing my post to someone would you say that I am "raging" about anima/relic weapons? I know what Remilia or Danny would say, but what would you say? Your opinion actually carries quite a bit of weight with me given your ability to discuss things like an adult.