[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[dope_danny]

Bit more to Bard than that, at least if you want to play it right.

Also Summoner's supportiveness really only extends to the extra rez - the heal is pitiful and the tank pet isn't likely to hold aggro for long unless the group holds off. It'll work in lower level dungeons but not really capped content.

Summoner is fun to play and does come with the bonus that you level Scholar at the same time, but let's not pretend it's actually a supportive class rather than the dot heavy pet managing job it actually is.

Its not a 'lock the character to the class' game though. Pick summoner and you have scholar, no other job to level from scratch its just ready as long as you have some gear. Right now BRD really only gets demand in group play if your group has a WHM and right now compared to AST/SCH thats not really happening by and large.

[Kazgrel]

Thanks for all the replies guys, this thread seemed to be active with helpful people, which is why I even started the trial in the first place.

Keep in mind that if you play a class/job and decide you no longer like it for whatever reason, you can swap to another class/job on that same character instead of having to make a new character. Bard is a fairly desirable job to have in groups thanks to good dps plus the utility abilities it provides (Swiftsong, Foe Requiem, Warden's Paean, just to name a few examples).

[The Casualty]

Its not a 'lock the character to the class' game though. Pick summoner and you have scholar, no other job to level from scratch its just ready as long as you have some gear. Right now BRD really only gets demand in group play if your group has a WHM and right now compared to AST/SCH thats not really happening by and large.

BRD is part of the meta comp right now, which does not include a WHM. If you want the highest numbers and fastest clear times, you don't take a caster. As far as raw damage, they do more than a BLM, and on par with a SMN.

Since creator savage, Monk, Paladin, Black Mage, and Summoner have been far less desirable as party members. Paladin because of their non-existent AOE damage and lackluster singe target compared to DRK, and the others because they do not have group buffs to increase raid output.

[dope_danny]

BRD is part of the meta comp right now, which does not include a WHM. If you want the highest numbers and fastest clear times, you don't take a caster. As far as raw damage, they do more than a BLM, and on par with a SMN.

Since creator savage, Monk, Paladin, Black Mage, and Summoner have been far less desirable as party members. Paladin because of their non-existent AOE damage and lackluster singe target compared to DRK, and the others because they do not have group buffs to increase raid output.

Really? on my server its almost always MHC>BRD in terms of ranged choices people are looking for. PLD's the same though, they can't catch a break in any activity ingame nowadays.

[The Casualty]

Really? on my server its almost always MHC>BRD in terms of ranged choices people are looking for. PLD's the same though, they can't catch a break in any activity ingame nowadays.

Ideally you take both MCH and BRD.

If you look at speed comps, regardless of fight, they all look the same: DRK, WAR, NIN, DRG, BRD, MCH, AST, SCH

BRD just takes a caster slot. Right now they offer similar DPS and better raid buffs than either SMN or BLM.

[Kazgrel]

I'm wondering what might possibly change that may shake up that meta. Just under 4 weeks before we may (or may not) find out.

It just so happens the 3 dps I enjoy the most are the 3 that are out of the meta picture currently.

I'm far from worried about it, though.

[dope_danny]

Ideally you take both MCH and BRD.

If you look at speed comps, regardless of fight, they all look the same: DRK, WAR, NIN, DRG, BRD, MCH, AST, SCH

BRD just takes a caster slot. Right now they offer similar DPS and better raid buffs than either SMN or BLM.

I the consensus on my server at large seems to be less speed focussed and more "nobody uses WHM so dont take BRD, everyone levelled MCH for the one shot macros in pvp so take them instead". Which aint exactly fair but just takes one server first to make people go "oh thats the only way to do it" in mmos nowadays.

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I'm wondering what might possibly change that may shake up that meta. Just under 4 weeks before we may (or may not) find out.

It just so happens the 3 dps I enjoy the most are the 3 that are out of the meta picture currently.

I'm far from worried about it, though.

I could see SAM being a MNK/DRG replacement based on what they do but the interesting one is RDM. We still don't really know what Chainspell does and the in and out movement could be the next "loldrg" in terms of animation lock leading to quick player deaths.

I fully expect at the start a lot of BLM players jumping to RDM but so far it looks at least like a single target magic dps and you gotta wonder if theres a place for it in larger group content.

God knows how the fencing dash in, dash out mechanics will work in the feast and frontlines as well.

[Aruhen]

I the consensus on my server at large seems to be less speed focussed and more "nobody uses WHM so dont take BRD, everyone levelled MCH for the one shot macros in pvp so take them instead". Which aint exactly fair but just takes one server first to make people go "oh thats the only way to do it" in mmos nowadays.

On mine its about 50/50 with BRD and MCH with a ever so slight edge towards MCH. Both classes are just in a really good spot right now in terms of damage and utility. Heck my BRD does 1.9-2.1k with a 210 weapon...granted the rest of the gear is 270 but still that's with no effort play. Yeah don't ask why I still have a 210.

[The Casualty]

I'm wondering what might possibly change that may shake up that meta. Just under 4 weeks before we may (or may not) find out.

It just so happens the 3 dps I enjoy the most are the 3 that are out of the meta picture currently.

I'm far from worried about it, though.

I think if something happened to the debuff abilities like Dancing Edge, Storm's Eye, Disembowel etc... that would go a decent way into freeing up slots. Right now the synergy is very strong.
Monk needs some love because right now they have no threat dump and no way to buff any other class but themselves, and Delirium is good enough for mitigating raid damage vs Dragon Kick.

SAM depending on buffs might be a worthwhile exchange to DRG, but right now DRG buffs the whole raid with Litany, and the BRD and MCH with Disembowel, which is a sizable increase on overall damage.

And NIN? I have no clue how they are going to work that class out of the meta. Trick attack, Goad, Shadewalker and Smoke Bomb is almost too good to belong on one class. The only thing they don't have going for them is single target compared to everyone else, but they still put out decent numbers.

[dope_danny]

And NIN? I have no clue how they are going to work that class out of the meta. Trick attack, Goad, Shadewalker and Smoke Bomb is almost too good to belong on one class. The only thing they don't have going for them is single target compared to everyone else, but they still put out decent numbers.

Sad thing is i swear i'm the only NIN that i ever seen in my groups using those and smoke bomb on healers is a godsend if the tanks slow to start up on a boss. We've all seen the fights where the tank taunts once then as everyone runs to it the boss runs past the party to the healer.

Which makes the sprint change seem worrying in this regard

[Kazgrel]

I could see SAM being a MNK/DRG replacement based on what they do but the interesting one is RDM. We still don't really know what Chainspell does and the in and out movement could be the next "loldrg" in terms of animation lock leading to quick player deaths.

I fully expect at the start a lot of BLM players jumping to RDM but so far it looks at least like a single target magic dps and you gotta wonder if theres a place for it in larger group content.

God knows how the fencing dash in, dash out mechanics will work in the feast and frontlines as well.

Heh, I never even thought about how animation lock may be a factor with RDM. Could very well be competing for the floor tank role.

I main BLM and can safely say that RDM is far down my list of priorities come SB. I'll get it and SAM unlocked simply so I can set up their gearsets (and free up my retainer from 20-25 pieces of Ironworks gear), but then it's off to get BLM to 70 then gather/craft like a madman. I'm but one BLM, though.

[The Casualty]

Sad thing is i swear i'm the only NIN that i ever seen in my groups using those and smoke bomb on healers is a godsend if the tanks slow to start up on a boss. We've all seen the fights where the tank taunts once then as everyone runs to it the boss runs past the party to the healer.

Which makes the sprint change seem worrying in this regard

I don't usually stick around long enough to comm people, but if a Ninja uses any of their toolkit outside of their rotation, I'm sticking around and making sure I mash that comm button. Same with Bards. I swear in random parties I rarely ever see that stuff, and for the life of me I cannot understand why. It makes the run so much smoother.

[dope_danny]

I don't usually stick around long enough to comm people, but if a Ninja uses any of their toolkit outside of their rotation, I'm sticking around and making sure I mash that comm button. Same with Bards. I swear in random parties I rarely ever see that stuff, and for the life of me I cannot understand why. It makes the run so much smoother.

I find theres two mindsets in pugs. Either "the party only moves as fast as its slowest member so doing the bare minimum wastes my own time" and "fuck you randos you are here to carry MY run for MY rewards who cares if i slack suckers" and none damage moves are a good way to define one or the other in a player.

[Kazgrel]

I think if something happened to the debuff abilities like Dancing Edge, Storm's Eye, Disembowel etc... that would go a decent way into freeing up slots. Right now the synergy is very strong.
Monk needs some love because right now they have no threat dump and no way to buff any other class but themselves, and Delirium is good enough for mitigating raid damage vs Dragon Kick.

SAM depending on buffs might be a worthwhile exchange to DRG, but right now DRG buffs the whole raid with Litany, and the BRD and MCH with Disembowel, which is a sizable increase on overall damage.

And NIN? I have no clue how they are going to work that class out of the meta. Trick attack, Goad, Shadewalker and Smoke Bomb is almost too good to belong on one class. The only thing they don't have going for them is single target compared to everyone else, but they still put out decent numbers.

Part of me likes the concept of the slashing/piercing types of debuffs, but at the same time, they are a big factor as in why such a meta exists to begin with. One idea I had was that the specific debuffs could go to being a generic "physical dmg vuln up", kinda like how BRD simply buffs magic damage on a target, but I don't think that would really accomplish anything other than making the MCH Hypercharge pretty meh (or is it a 20% increase? I forget).

I don't see DRG going anywhere so long as Litany is a thing, and NIN utility as you've pointed out borders on being almost too good to give up. Personally, I hope to see other jobs get nice things to help even things out over nerfing jobs that are really good/meta.

[Berethos08]

Its not a 'lock the character to the class' game though. Pick summoner and you have scholar, no other job to level from scratch its just ready as long as you have some gear. Right now BRD really only gets demand in group play if your group has a WHM and right now compared to AST/SCH thats not really happening by and large.

I'm talking about the design intent behind the jobs, not the raiding meta. Not sure why that's relevant to the fact that Summoner is not a support class and Bard is a support class.

[The Casualty]

There really isn't support roles/classes in this game. Just the trinity. Any dedicated support that Bard was supposed to be was left dying at the beginning of ARR. Now all classes have varying levels of support abilities. Bard is no more or less a DPS than summoner.

[dope_danny]

I'm talking about the design intent behind the jobs, not the raiding meta. Not sure why that's relevant to the fact that Summoner is not a support class and Bard is a support class.

They said they were interested in something supportive and beginner friendly. Having a healer job to swap to at any time for free you dont have to level separately to the most beginner friendly dps seems to fit the bill.

[Granyala]

I'm talking about the design intent behind the jobs, not the raiding meta. Not sure why that's relevant to the fact that Summoner is not a support class and Bard is a support class.

Sorry but having some temporary buff does not make you a support class.
Shadowpriest was a support role back in TBC.
Pitiful damage compared to other casters (esp the further you approach Sunwell) but still mandatory due to mana regeneration and off healing.

[Berethos08]

They said they were interested in something supportive and beginner friendly. Having a healer job to swap to at any time for free you dont have to level separately to the most beginner friendly dps seems to fit the bill.

My point was your description of both jobs was wrong - Bard is more than a DoT and a Buff, and Summoner is not a supportive job just because of a rez (it's also less beginner friendly than Bard is by the time you hit 60)...and if your reasoning behind it being a supportive job is because it gives you access to an entirely different job that is a supportive job?

That's just silly.

They also said they wanted to play a support specifically...if they had wanted to play a healer, I get the feeling they would have mentioned they wanted to play a healer.

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Sorry but having some temporary buff does not make you a support class.
Shadowpriest was a support role back in TBC.
Pitiful damage compared to other casters (esp the further you approach Sunwell) but still mandatory due to mana regeneration and off healing.

In the FFXIV lexicon, Bard and Machinist are support jobs.

They may not fully delve into the role like you see in other games, but in the context of this game, they are the support jobs.

[Eleccybubb]

I don't wanna click it......

Update. WOOOO 3 LINES AT LAST!