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  1. #41
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    It was never the mechanics alone that made tanking challenging. One of the most engaging part of tanking that they have all but nullified in WoW is threat management. In BC, tanks were not only judged on survival, but also threat. Fighting for threat was what made it fun for me as tank and as a DPS. It was not a perfect system, but much better than threat not mattering at all.
    true true, I always REALLY enjoyed threat management as a tank. During TBC I played a Drood, and it was always quite the Epeen boost to have 4/5 mobs all glued to me, considering the only AoE threat tool we have was swipe hitting three targets . Looking at Swtor, we're seeing the 'Tank Stance' increasing Threat Gen by 50%, and alot of high damage abilities, so I'm guessing/hoping that Threat management will be a pretty big part of tanking, fingers crossed

    and Boonie, Assassins are NOT Avoidance tanks , they have pretty much the same armor as the heavy tanks(IIRC it's about 5% either way). Also looking at the amount of self healing they get (did you see how much Dark Charge was proccing on the EV walkthrough ) I'm guessing they wont be anywhere NEAR as hard to heal as a Death Knight (dont forget they also have block , and if im not mistaken they have the highest block chance of all three tanks). So far from what I've seen of all the tanks, they seem pretty balanced in terms of survivability, and TTL. Although I think Assassin's may take a bit more work to keep up, but that's probably just me being pessimist, as I plan to main on come launch :P (FIVE WEEKS*ish* BABY YYEEAAHH!)
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  2. #42
    The lack of an auto-attack and Ranged tanking alone makes things a lot more interesting, and may bring more tanks into the game.

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    I really wish people would stop hyping this up, there are going to be a great many disappointed tanks when they find out that they're actually spending most of their time in Melee.
    From what I understand at least you won't use meelee attacks with the Trooper and Bounty Hunter tanks. You'll use your close range attacks like Flamethrower, etc. AFAIK Bounty Hunter don't have a single meelee strike attack.
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  4. #44
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Rocket Punch

    seriously though yeah most of their moves are mid range, although you could call the flamethrower based attacks short range, can't remember the max range for them, but it ain't far

    I guess yeah you could say they're called Ranged Tanks because they use a Ranged weapon, but people still misinterpret it, and that's why BW needs to release more info, or better yet drop NDA... or even better than that... give me Beta
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    Are you guys looking forward to it? I sure am. I love tanking in WOW as it's quite possibly the most challenging and pressuring role. (No disrespect to healers, that's tough as hell too). However, as seen by the current state of wow (tanks=instant queue, need bribe--um, bonus satchels to to encourage players to tank), tanking can be too difficult and frustrating. Doesn't help that people love to hate on the tank unfairly.

    Interestingly enough, a lot of polls seem to point to a decent portion of people rolling tank ACs. Why do you guys think this is so?

    In my personal viewI see two ways it could lead. 1. If Tanking is as challenging as wow, this could lead to a lot of newbie tanks messing up a lot and ragequitting. 2. If Tanking is faceroll easy, PVE becomes a joke, kinda. And healers seem to get little love. From videos though, I have to say... dungeons seem to be quite forgiving. The DPSers getting hit by the bosses really don't get hit that hard. But ofc that's just a demo so yeah.
    I'd say it's due in part to SW:TOR's ability to make tanking useful in pvp. Tanks in SW:TOR will have abilities to absorb enemy player damage off of their friendly targets, and a lot of protection/deflection abilities. Coupled with the fact that each roll gets rewards/awards per match depending on how well they do as a healer/tank/dps, makes the other roles that are not dps seem a little more attractive.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 01:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    true true, I always REALLY enjoyed threat management as a tank. During TBC I played a Drood, and it was always quite the Epeen boost to have 4/5 mobs all glued to me, considering the only AoE threat tool we have was swipe hitting three targets . Looking at Swtor, we're seeing the 'Tank Stance' increasing Threat Gen by 50%, and alot of high damage abilities, so I'm guessing/hoping that Threat management will be a pretty big part of tanking, fingers crossed

    and Boonie, Assassins are NOT Avoidance tanks , they have pretty much the same armor as the heavy tanks(IIRC it's about 5% either way). Also looking at the amount of self healing they get (did you see how much Dark Charge was proccing on the EV walkthrough ) I'm guessing they wont be anywhere NEAR as hard to heal as a Death Knight (dont forget they also have block , and if im not mistaken they have the highest block chance of all three tanks). So far from what I've seen of all the tanks, they seem pretty balanced in terms of survivability, and TTL. Although I think Assassin's may take a bit more work to keep up, but that's probably just me being pessimist, as I plan to main on come launch :P (FIVE WEEKS*ish* BABY YYEEAAHH!)
    Assassins are avoidance/ability tanks that reinforce their defenses as such. Their armor is medium, not heavy.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    It was never the mechanics alone that made tanking challenging. One of the most engaging part of tanking that they have all but nullified in WoW is threat management. In BC, tanks were not only judged on survival, but also threat. Fighting for threat was what made it fun for me as tank and as a DPS. It was not a perfect system, but much better than threat not mattering at all.
    This exactly, and one of the major reasons I lost interest in wow after wotlk came out. Warrior tanks as an example, you had evasion tanks, soaker tanks, or a mix. All were viable and equally entertaining to theorize about the best way to handle survivability AND threat. Wotlk comes out and evasion means squat. It was all about soaking damage, not about threat or avoiding damage.

    I yearn for another game where I can have options in how to tank effectively, not just "this is how you tank, take it or leave it. Btw you are a meat shield, stack up that health or you're useless".

    Gimme options!

  7. #47
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreavus View Post
    Assassins are avoidance/ability tanks that reinforce their defenses as such. Their armor is medium, not heavy.
    not really. For all intents and purposes while tanking their armor is heavy, as Dark Charge has 100% uptime and give them 150% increased armor. They also don't have that much higher avoidance than the other tanks (again it's around 4/5%) so nothing about them says 'avoidance tank'. People believed they were for a while, based on a misquote from like 6 months ago, but BW, as well as numerous people in beta have stated that Assassin's are pretty much as close to being Avoidance tanks as any of the others.
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    All of the tanks are very similar in mitigation/avoidance. Pretty sure that was done on purpose so that all tanks are viable on every boss, from a survival standpoint.

    Things overall look a lot like WoW has done. Each class has their own abilities, but overall there are not really any major buffs given by anyone. The main difference simply being the play style, which means "bring the player not the class" seems to be something Bioware is going with. That is fine with me. It helps make balancing easier. Rather have a balanced game than more variety in abilities.

  9. #49
    I cannot wait to play my JK Guardian. And yes I will be tanking, I have all four tank classes in WoW(though my DK is only lvl 78 and I don't like him at all). I'm probably going to be tanking on my guardian plus a trooper in SWTOR. JCs just seem like they should be healers, so thats probably going to be my healer.

    Well then eventually I plan on rolling some Emp alts, so I'll probably have at least 1-2 more tanks there.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post

    and Boonie, Assassins are NOT Avoidance tanks , they have pretty much the same armor as the heavy tanks(IIRC it's about 5% either way). Also looking at the amount of self healing they get (did you see how much Dark Charge was proccing on the EV walkthrough ) I'm guessing they wont be anywhere NEAR as hard to heal as a Death Knight (dont forget they also have block , and if im not mistaken they have the highest block chance of all three tanks). So far from what I've seen of all the tanks, they seem pretty balanced in terms of survivability, and TTL. Although I think Assassin's may take a bit more work to keep up, but that's probably just me being pessimist, as I plan to main on come launch :P (FIVE WEEKS*ish* BABY YYEEAAHH!)
    Ah-hah! My bad. I actually dont know why i got the impression of Assassins/Shadows as dodge tanks. I have refused to read in-depth skills & previews to savour the experience when it starts (5 weeks GUYS!). But if you say they aren't avoidance, I'll just take your word for it.

    I actually have been staying away from too in-depth previews of the classes as I wanna enjoy the MMO before the elitistjerks/mathcrunchers take over and people start scolding you for "being sub optimal " In a way, thank god for no DPS meter. I always did well on them, but people used them as a stupid means to measuring other players ("Why are you doing only 22k DPS you noob! GTFO! ... YOu were interrupting? Whats an interrupt?")

    It'll be funny if SWTOR totally bucks the trend of other MMOs. Instead of "Group LF Tank" it might very well end up as "Tank Looking for grp" being commonly seen in general chat

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    All of the tanks are very similar in mitigation/avoidance. Pretty sure that was done on purpose so that all tanks are viable on every boss, from a survival standpoint.

    Things overall look a lot like WoW has done. Each class has their own abilities, but overall there are not really any major buffs given by anyone. The main difference simply being the play style, which means "bring the player not the class" seems to be something Bioware is going with. That is fine with me. It helps make balancing easier. Rather have a balanced game than more variety in abilities.
    Well hopefully there will be an opportunity to specialize at endgame, so that not all of a single tanking class/AC are the same cookie-cutter build. In WoW terms, I know my prot warrior is different from a bear tank, but I want the ability to be different than other prot warriors, whether it be talents/skills or gear(more choices for each item slot). That might be too much to ask I suppose, for balancing purposes. But that's how awesome it got in TBC in my WoW days, at least as a prot warrior(can't say the same diversity occurred for bears/pallies though)

  12. #52
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    Ah-hah! My bad. I actually dont know why i got the impression of Assassins/Shadows as dodge tanks. I have refused to read in-depth skills & previews to savour the experience when it starts (5 weeks GUYS!). But if you say they aren't avoidance, I'll just take your word for it.

    I actually have been staying away from too in-depth previews of the classes as I wanna enjoy the MMO before the elitistjerks/mathcrunchers take over and people start scolding you for "being sub optimal " In a way, thank god for no DPS meter. I always did well on them, but people used them as a stupid means to measuring other players ("Why are you doing only 22k DPS you noob! GTFO! ... YOu were interrupting? Whats an interrupt?")

    It'll be funny if SWTOR totally bucks the trend of other MMOs. Instead of "Group LF Tank" it might very well end up as "Tank Looking for grp" being commonly seen in general chat
    np dude, you're not the first and you sure and hell wont be the last to assume Assassins are going to be avoidance tanks :P there was actually a frakking HUGE threat on the official board, argueing for ages about how they where going to tank.... I got quite angry in there... im not allowed on the official boards now

    tbh that's not a bad idea, I've got a rough idea of how im going to build my char, and tbh I couldn't care less if its not the 100% best spec to play, as not only is leveling ALL about experimenting, and working out how to play, but most importantly of all, for the first... two or three months, you just KNOW there will be at least one, probably more patches, with small tweaks and balances. So what may be the 'optimal' build now, based on math and beta blah blah, may end up totally suboptimal once you actually test it in live, and it gets tweaked.

    and yeah that would be quite interesting, not going to happen though
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  13. #53
    Stood in the Fire krono957's Avatar
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    going from blood dk and prot war straight to my prot sith jug and possible a tank bh if I'm not completely addicted to the jug
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    .... I got quite angry in there... im not allowed on the official boards now
    Getting angry on the forums ... a path to the dark side it is.

    I am so torn between all the AC's that I will most likely be leveling multiple chars to a certain level before i can choose what i will play as main.

  15. #55
    I just found this off someone's sig (sorry guy, I forgot the name)

    www.swtor-tanking.com

    I purposely try to keep away from ability previews and such so I can enjoy, but I understand some people want to get an idea of how their tanking will be like, so this site has some nice previews on how tank classes work.

  16. #56
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    yeah I've been there a bit Boonie, but I... have some issues with the guy who owns it had a few heated debates with him here, mostly about Tankasins... Sithwarrior.com is quite good though (it's not just about warriors ) they're doing ALOT of theorycrafting at the moment, and having to redo the numbers pretty much every patch it's like trying to carry water in a bucket with holes in... but if you want a basic idea of how the tank classes will play out, you should give it a look.

    God I wish I was in Beta
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    yeah I've been there a bit Boonie, but I... have some issues with the guy who owns it had a few heated debates with him here, mostly about Tankasins... Sithwarrior.com is quite good though (it's not just about warriors ) they're doing ALOT of theorycrafting at the moment, and having to redo the numbers pretty much every patch it's like trying to carry water in a bucket with holes in... but if you want a basic idea of how the tank classes will play out, you should give it a look.

    God I wish I was in Beta
    I shall bookmark it for after I'm done with at least a week's work of rolling the different classes and deciding what class I want to go with (god... only 8 classes but all are so intriguing).

    You think you're unlucky for not being beta? I live in the Oceanic region - I'll be lucky if my game store even gets it in time on the 20th! :P

    BTW you seem to have a lot of fights going on here and there. LOL

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    If Tanking is as challenging as wow
    Tanking in WoW isn't hard, my girlfriend learnt to tank well in a week or so and she didn't even play videos games before WoW...

    I agree about your concerns with random damage from bosses, I believe they were undertuned for testing though. If early flashpoints are forgiving that's fine; just hope the proper end game isn't.

    I can't wait to get my tank on~

  19. #59
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    I shall bookmark it for after I'm done with at least a week's work of rolling the different classes and deciding what class I want to go with (god... only 8 classes but all are so intriguing).

    You think you're unlucky for not being beta? I live in the Oceanic region - I'll be lucky if my game store even gets it in time on the 20th! :P

    BTW you seem to have a lot of fights going on here and there. LOL
    I know man :S I think I'm just going to have to try EVERYTHING, two of each class, one of each AC, spread over the two factions (e.g a Sith Assassin, and a Jedi Sage) and then see which one I like best. From what I've seen so far though Sith Assassin's will be my class of Choice, I like the self healing type model, think DK's but they can still block... what's not to love

    yeash.. that kinda sucks, tbh I'm starting to care less and less about the Beta... I mean the game comes out in like... a month, I think I can hold it down till live.

    and yeah.. I do seem to have a few scraps.. But I know when to cool it, so I rarely get banned/infracted for them it's just... 'heated discussion'... with swearwords...
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

    Stands in front of 100 enemies with 10% health left "Myeh, I'll save my potions for when I REALLY need them." - every rpg player ever.

  20. #60
    I've never found tanking to be any more or less challenging than DPS or healing personally. Tanking in WoW right now just bores me to death, it's incredibly easy to hold threat and, outside of Prot Warrior tanking, feels slower paced than DPS. It depends upon class mechanics more than anything really. I've always found DPS to be the most competitive in PvE, healing in most MMOs is either mana-management based or basically a "whack-a-mole" minigame, and tanking more about popping CDs and positioning enemies.

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