Destro Lock's?

[Deleted]

Nether ward only absorbs roughly 9-10k damage, meaning a single obliterate or chimera shot and the absorb is gone. After that, one spell school as the damage reduction.

The fact that you think Obliterate does spell damage makes my BS indicator break.

Both hunters and DK's have a lot of physical damage coming out, so nether ward does not negate 30% of their damage.

DK's main damage supply in PvP = Frost strike, and all of the bonus damage is Frost Damage, which can be soaked. The fact that you then take 30% less Frost damage will make Nether Ward last longer and so possibly absorb more magic schools.

As for reckful vs him as destro, have you seen the NA invitational? Reckful was locking down the afflic locks like crazy, and destro relies a lot more on hardcasts.

You're putting a 3k arena sub rogue against a 2.2k BG DestroLock. They have completely different playstyles and thus are not compatible for comparison in a 1v1 scenario.

[Kildragon]

I don't play a dk so I wasn't sure about which spell breaks it but what makes you think taking frost damage makes the ward last longer? Seems like you don't even know your own class. Pretty much a single frost strike will break it. Also gg for calling adouken a 2.2k bg lock. He was only first place in the korean invitational and was at blizzcon. And different playstyles? What the hell are you talking about?

[Deleted]

The ONLY time a frost strike will break nether ward is when you're stacking pure mastery, otherwise, it'll hit, take a chunk of the frost damage, and then take 30% less frost damage from all sources, meaning against frost, the ward will last longer and have a higher chance of picking up 30% reduction from other schools aswell, this 30% reduction lasts until the timer runs out, breaking nether ward won't stop it.

I only found out he played at Blizzcon since i wrote my last post, so fair enough on that part. But he was playing affliction in those tournaments, not Destro.

And I meant that it requires a completely different state of mind to play BG/RBGs, and Arena, you can have 5billion arena rating, but that won't mean shit if you start capping SH GY and your team rages at you for not knowing tacs.

[Hellfury]

I see a lot of "its bad" comments. Yet I perform 1 or 2 in my raids as destro (obviously, depending on encounter). So are people saying its bad because simulation craft shows that its low? Or are people saying its bad because its the thing all the "cool" kids say to make them look like they're cool? /shrug.

Well ppl say its bad because its really bad, I dont wana sound arrogant but give me a copy of your char and me as aff I would destroy you as destro in a single target fight 110% guaranteed. Its just how it is, and Iam not talking out of my ass some weeks ago I went destro for the lulz, and I dont consider me a bad destro player I was destro most of tier11 raids.

If you place 1 or 2 in your raid of badies good for you, but you could be doing much better, but in the end its all your choise, anyway 4.3 comming and you should skyrocket, so this discussion doesnt have much meaning.

4.2.2 Destro is for a reason one of the worst caster specs in game thats why its getting buffed to high heavens, even a frost mage properly geared and reforged does more damage vs a destro properly geared and reforged in 4.2.2

[gakpad]

Well ppl say its bad because its really bad, I dont wana sound arrogant but give me a copy of your char and me as aff I would destroy you as destro in a single target fight 110% guaranteed. Its just how it is, and Iam not talking out of my ass some weeks ago I went destro for the lulz, and I dont consider me a bad destro player I was destro most of tier11 raids.

If you place 1 or 2 in your raid of badies good for you, but you could be doing much better, but in the end its all your choise, anyway 4.3 comming and you should skyrocket, so this discussion doesnt have much meaning.

4.2.2 Destro is for a reason one of the worst caster specs in game thats why its getting buffed to high heavens, even a frost mage properly geared and reforged does more damage vs a destro properly geared and reforged in 4.2.2

Assumgin equal play on live servers destruction is 2-3 thousand dps behind affliction and demonology. When we're already in the 33-35k range I wouldn't call outperforming someone by 2-3k dps "destroying." Nobody's arguing that destruction is as good as affliction or demonology right now.

[Deleted]

More Green Fire Please!

OT: Isn't destro going to be on-par with affliction in 4.3 anyway?

[ImInAJar]

my problem with destruction is it doesnt really fill a niche. Demo, while being great on standstill fights, is also one of the best aoe specs in the game. Affliction's multidotting provides good on-the-run 2-3 target pressure while still having the single target dps to top the charts. Destro, in 4.3, will perform as well if not slightly better than afflicction SimCraft wise....but to be fair simcraft performs a perfect rotation and assumes perfect conditions....which isnt always the case....and is why affliction tends to pull out ahead because it has better moving dps.

I think the only fight I'll be speccing destro for DS is heroic morchok.....boh ftw

[Deleted]

my problem with destruction is it doesnt really fill a niche. Demo, while being great on standstill fights, is also one of the best aoe specs in the game. Affliction's multidotting provides good on-the-run 2-3 target pressure while still having the single target dps to top the charts. Destro, in 4.3, will perform as well if not slightly better than afflicction SimCraft wise....but to be fair simcraft performs a perfect rotation and assumes perfect conditions....which isnt always the case....and is why affliction tends to pull out ahead because it has better moving dps.

I think the only fight I'll be speccing destro for DS is heroic morchok.....boh ftw

Only unfortunate thing is that I won't be playing lock as a serious raid char until 5.0, being swapped from DK > Fury Warrior as I'm hating my DK right now, but i've got my prep in place for my warlock in 5.0.

OT: I'll probably run DS in the Raid Finder after i've got my 378 lewts from the 3 new heroics and go destro to see how it turns out.

[Brauhm]

my problem with destruction is it doesnt really fill a niche. Demo, while being great on standstill fights, is also one of the best aoe specs in the game. Affliction's multidotting provides good on-the-run 2-3 target pressure while still having the single target dps to top the charts. Destro, in 4.3, will perform as well if not slightly better than afflicction SimCraft wise....but to be fair simcraft performs a perfect rotation and assumes perfect conditions....which isnt always the case....and is why affliction tends to pull out ahead because it has better moving dps.

I think the only fight I'll be speccing destro for DS is heroic morchok.....boh ftw

Well actually, with the change to burning embers and the increased duration of improved soulfire, destro's moving dps is much better, its not as great as afflictions but there's really going to need to be a lot of movement for destro to fall behind affliction. A few seconds of movement shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Deleted]

Well actually, with the change to burning embers and the increased duration of improved soulfire, destro's moving dps is much better, its not as great as afflictions but there's really going to need to be a lot of movement for destro to fall behind affliction. A few seconds of movement shouldn't be too much of an issue.

And on the off chance that we do have to move as Destro, you have to factor in that:

A) You could have an Empowered Imp Proc.
B) You can Teleport to a safer location and continue as normal if the 1.x GCD is shorter than your time spent moving.

[Kildragon]

Destro will be more than viable next patch. Even though it has lost much of its burst potential with Cata, it still bursts better than the other two spec and has the best survivability out of the three. Additionally it brings shadowfury and BoH which are both amazing if used properly. Before anyone says that Demo has better burst, Demo has amazing burst on a 2-3 min CD depending on your procs and you almost never hold it for specific burst scenarios meaning Destro still has the best burst by a long shot.

What you play will most likely come down to a few factors, first of all your raid buffs. If you're in a 10man guild and not running with an Ele shaman you will definitely go Demo, if you're running with a mage you have the choice but Demo would still be more beneficial. On fights that require damage on more than two targets over an extended period of time Afflic will be better, but on two target fights Destro will always pull ahead. If you're just worried about mobility Afflic might be better, but Destro offers far better survivability and CC.

Since I'm one of the lucky few 10man HM raiders to run with an Ele shaman I will most likely go with Destro and Afflic and only use Demo if really needed. Personally I hate the petswapping mechanic which is one of the specs biggest turn offs for me, so unless pet swapping will be less than ideal in 4.3 Demo will be on the bottom of my list.

---------- Post added 2011-11-10 at 02:42 PM ----------

The ONLY time a frost strike will break nether ward is when you're stacking pure mastery, otherwise, it'll hit, take a chunk of the frost damage, and then take 30% less frost damage from all sources, meaning against frost, the ward will last longer and have a higher chance of picking up 30% reduction from other schools aswell, this 30% reduction lasts until the timer runs out, breaking nether ward won't stop it.

I only found out he played at Blizzcon since i wrote my last post, so fair enough on that part. But he was playing affliction in those tournaments, not Destro.

And I meant that it requires a completely different state of mind to play BG/RBGs, and Arena, you can have 5billion arena rating, but that won't mean shit if you start capping SH GY and your team rages at you for not knowing tacs.

I'm not sure where this whole argument went, but I believe you quoted me when I was talking about him and the two hunters or him and the DK and the hunter. My main point was that those people were absolutely awful. i just looked at most of Adouken 3 and well let's see, he's facing DK's, Warriors, Hunters, Rogues and Frost Mages. The highest crit he took was around 13k, and his dots as Destro are ticking for well over 10k. I saw plenty of 13-14k crits from immolate on these people. A Chaos Bolt critting for 21k? Him soloing a Spriest when he was at less than 5% health and the spriest was full? Adouken is a great player, but please look at what he's facing in these videos.

His videos were mainly mentioned earlier in the thread to show that Destro is viable. It however is far from viable in any situation save 5s, Rated BG's and random BG's. On the other hand, viable does not mean optimal. As destro you're missing out on UA and in a rated BG or even 5s the fact that you do not have dispel protection means you're gimping the team and you will not do optimal damage. If you're running with a Spriest or Affliction lock right now, yes you might be able to pull off some fun stuff in RBG's or even 5s but you're still gimping the team. Matter of fact is Destro relies too much on its dots for damage, which do not have dispel protection. It just happens to be that right now healers can dispel freely and any team with half a brain will realize that dispelling immolate will completely gimp the lock, causing him to not be able to cast conflag, miss out on bonus damage to CB and incin, and simply get rid of the dot damage.

So, my conclusion is that a very skilled player could potentially pull off performing decently in RBGs or 5s, but it is far from optimal. I don't count random BG's as any viable measuring standard because I've seen a fury warrior beat two frost mages in a random BG simply because of how awful they were. Destro is not optimal and in 99% of cases not even viable. We may see this change in 5.0 with the CD on dispels and the reduction on constant interrupts, plus the return of burst Destro but until then, do yourself a favor and only run Destro in random BG's for shits and giggles.