10 man loot vs 25 man loot

[heartattack]

HI guys i raid in both 10 and 25 man guilds my question is why should it be so much harder to get the gear u need in 10 man.
Both take skill to down in heroic but 10 man u can kill a boss all patch as i have done and never see the drop u need.
what i think the answer would be to fix this is in 10 man u get 5 pieces of loot and the raid leader picks the 2 most needed.we D.E tier shoulders for the last 6 weeks and still our pallies dont have them or have seen them drop.

plz plz plz smarter loot for 10 man guilds we are players as well ( stop dropping rogue daggers we dont have a rogue)

[Velthy]

1 piece of gear for 5 mans. Seems pretty fair to me. Im in 10man guild.

[Deleted]

10man raiding got buffed A LOT in cataclysm (weget the same loot now). i think that's more than enough

[heartattack]

yep i think its fair better then de'ing the same loot every week u get a choice of the loot just like 25 man.
I do the same content on both chars 25 man is 388 item lvl 10 man is 381 never see the drops i need come on plz help fix that

[callidas]

Part of the point of random loot is so that you don't get what you need, and need to come back and kill it again and again.

If a boss drops 5 items that you need, and you have 3 people that need all of them, you could just kill it 3 times and be done with it. With the loot being random and all you might need to kill it 20 times to get most of the people most of the items, but there will still be people that haven't got something and want to come back.

Random loot is random and so the best you can do is add in a kind of system that evens it out over time so that is why you have all these dkp systems and guilds.

[Deleted]

Spoiler:

RNG


/thread

[heartattack]

i have killed shannox 20 times on heroic and he has never dropped the gloves on 10 man not once if u kill a boss that many times u should see the loot at least once

[Bane Falcon]

HI guys i raid in both 10 and 25 man guilds my question is why should it be so much harder to get the gear u need in 10 man.
Both take skill to down in heroic but 10 man u can kill a boss all patch as i have done and never see the drop u need.
what i think the answer would be to fix this is in 10 man u get 5 pieces of loot and the raid leader picks the 2 most needed.we D.E tier shoulders for the last 6 weeks and still our pallies dont have them or have seen them drop.

plz plz plz smarter loot for 10 man guilds we are players as well ( stop dropping rogue daggers we dont have a rogue)

I'm raiding with my rogue every week, and I'm STILL Yet to see an off-hand dagger drop. We're consistently 6/7 Heroic each week, with a quick Rag kill thrown in (9-manning, if someone isn't up for it), and we've DE'd his belt 2 or 3 times now.

This just in: RANDOM LOOT IS RANDOM.

[helheim]

not in dragon soul it's not the same.

currently on ptr tier bosses drop 1 tier token and 1 item, compared to firelands on live where you get 2 items and 1 token.

compare this to 25 man drops where you get 2 tokens and 4 items.

[Velthy]

i have killed shannox 20 times on heroic and he has never dropped the gloves on 10 man not once if u kill a boss that many times u should see the loot at least once

Its RNG, nothing to do about that. Same think can happen on 25man, since u can get 2-5 same items.
For my guild gloves drops every week, but i never seen the ring from Beth. Not complaining tho.
I even wish to come back to vanilla loot system, 40 people, two items, no tokens. Gearing up is not supposed to be easy.

[Bane Falcon]

i have killed shannox 20 times on heroic and he has never dropped the gloves on 10 man not once if u kill a boss that many times u should see the loot at least once

If the loot has a 5% drop rate, that means that each time he's killed, there's a 5% chance he has it on him. That does NOT mean that the first time he has 5%, the second 10%, the third 15%... There is no accumulation of percentages. The dice do not have memory.

Back in ICC, we went the entirety of Tier 10 with only seeing ONE Whispering Fanged Skull. We killed her the first time the first week ICC came out. We killed her every week after. We killed her many times on Heroic. That entire length of time, only a single one dropped on Regular. We're talking MONTHS, here.

Random loot is random.

[Blackmist]

Make Holy Pallies able to wear mail for their % int bonus, and you solve part of the problem right there. :/ Either that or make bosses drop a currency token for all (like VPs) but you can spend them on ANY bit of loot from the bosses you've killed, rather than having to wait for the drop that never comes. They could make it enough of a grind that you'd only be able to get a bit of loot every 2-3 months or so. Any more than that and it's wide open for abuse.

[Kalinga]

Our paladin have 1 full set of HC tier for his OS and 4 hc tier helmets. We've had 4 protector tokens drops in total.

[Skulli]

Some people are really spoiled these days. It was common that only 2 (in words two) items dropped from a boss in 25 and also in 40m raids. Some higher bosses dropped a few more items though.
RNG is part of the game and thats just bad luck when item x does not drop.
I remember when we were farming Illidan back then, we got the fucking dagger (shard of azzinoth) almost everytime in the first 10 weeks or something.

[Deleted]

Everyone knows about the RNG, but it´s definitly harder to get the equip u need in 10 than in 25 man. Thats the problem, not RNG. For example, we haven't seen 5 Tankitems that both tank need in FL since the FL came out. Thats absolutly annoying for us.

[Elumaria]

1 item per 5 man. seems fair. BUT in 10 man this 1 item is 1/2 of the entire loot, whereas in 25 man it's only 1/5. So you defninately gear up way easier in 25 man. Even though the difficulty is almost the same, some bosses are easier in 10 man, others in their 25 man version. The only huge difference is that 25 man are by far harder to coordinate.

But in the end it's all up to rnd anyway - it has always been like this and it will always be like this :S

[asharia]

on the surface the 2 and 6 looks fine

but because of the random nature of drops, 10man gets a far worse deal

[pocky_rin]

I would be happier if 10man was actually the same difficulty. Previous tier fights like Alakir on 10man hc were actually harder than 25man, this tier firelands hc is a way easier on 10s than it is 25s. It's just never going to scale properly, considering that you use the same floor space as 25people, if there is a fight about spreading out and using a lot of the room 10man already has an advantage there. I've no problem with 10 and 25s dropping the same loot, but only if steps are taken to scale the fights differently to keep them equal, or else they will always favor 1. They talked about in the future btw for 10man making it very unlikely that mail drops if you have no mail user in the raid, that would help a lot. When we do our alt groups alll we get is agility mail and no-one to use it, makes it hard to progress because we never seem to get many upgrades.

[helheim]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...94?page=12#225

As a followup, from videos I've looked at on youtube for 25 man (since I'm a 10 man raider):

On normal modes, excluding things like Essence of Destruction and Flame Orbs:

25m

Majordomo: 5 items + 3 tier tokens
Morchok: 5 items
Zon'ozz: 3 items + 2 tier tokens

10m

Majordomo: 2 items + 1 tier token
Morchok: 2 items
Zon'ozz: 1 item + 1 tier token

[Mammoth]

As everyone has said, RNG.

If it was a big deal and I had to deal with it, I would not remove the RNG from 10 man, but instead insert it into 25 man.

When loot drops in 10 you get: 1x ItemA, 1x ItemB

When loot drops in 25 you get: 3x ItemA, 2x ItemB

You have the same amount of gear in 25 man as always, because you have more members, but you get more RNG.