25hm rag ph3 dps

[bayre]

My guild has rag 25 hm on farm, for the past 2 weeks we've had only 1 meteor on our kill, however im interested to see what you all think in terms of our dps and who could be performing better

recount was reset when ph3 started and the ss taken right before it ended



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[TyrianFC]

Oh, hello One.

You'll want to provide logs of the attempt in question. Stuff that will be looked at: Who is using Burn Potions, which specific cooldowns are used in P3 (eg are people saving their cooldowns for the p3 burn, or wasting them in the leadup 2 minutes during p2/intermission etc), rotations etc, debuffs applies/missing/uptimes, player DPS uptimes etc.

Recount, by itself, is a very poor way to draw conclusions. Really do need WOL if you want meaningful responses.

Another notably important factor in P3 performance, is the P3 strat your guild actually uses. This is a little more difficult to tell purely via logs (easier just to watch a video). Positions/movement/Meteor Management etc. Stuff like this might be somewhat out of the hands of the average player, if they're simply doing what they're told and following the guild strat.

[bayre]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2971&e=3724 corresponds to the first screenshot

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=14832&e=15585 corresponds to the second screenshot

---------- Post added 2011-11-13 at 01:37 PM ----------

The main thing im looking for is a 'i play a hunter and i norm do about 30k as well' or 'i play a boomkin but i normally do 40k' etc etc, if i see people saying they normally do more then ill look more in depth at our players cd usage through wol etc

[TyrianFC]

It's a little easier to review P3 when we cut out the rest of the fight, so the second ss is: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=15230&e=15302

and first ss: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3377&e=3445

[Hardwk]

<< Superpelican :3
Hey Tyrian, the SS's posted in the OP are infact P3 only, Local would reset skada/recount or whatever at the start, and SS it when he submerged.
But yeah, those WoL pretty much show the same thing, and everyone was using Pot's during lust then iirc.
Also, I think Sokar saved his Doomguard for that phase, but Londyn didn't.
:S

Edit: Also, Tyrian, I'm pretty sure the WoL you linked, is only from the start of Bloodlust. Just from looking at the graphs, not everyone would be sustaining around 35k during add phase.

I found the point where our OT taunted the last scion off the MT, as this is the instant that Rag would pop up, then continued until damage stopped.

2nd SS:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=15207&e=15314

I think that's right? :S

[Samic]

It seems to me, playdizzle isn't drainsouling enough. Personally I save my DS for once ragnaros hits 25%, and then start utilizing my cooldowns, since drain soul since benefits from DS, where shadow bolt (pre execute filler) doesn't.

[TyrianFC]

Nar, the links start when the second Lava Scion dies (aka start of p3 / end of intermission). Hero in both cases occurs ~half way through p3. Different to how I do it myself on 10's (hero at start of p3), but saving hero for lower execute range would make more sense in a 25 man setting, whereby there's many more people to take advantage of it.

[Hardwk]

Ahh true, I see what you did, I was having a look at when Motelfxo stopped taking damage, as most times we still have a scion at about 20% when the phase starts.
I'm still learning how to utilize WoL effectively too!

[clavarnway]

Nar, the links start when the second Lava Scion dies (aka start of p3 / end of intermission). Hero in both cases occurs ~half way through p3. Different to how I do it myself on 10's (hero at start of p3), but saving hero for lower execute range would make more sense in a 25 man setting, whereby there's many more people to take advantage of it.

p3 starts when the last Son of Flame dies, not when the last Lava Scion dies.

[TyrianFC]

I'm still learning how to utilize WoL effectively too!

We could have a vent date sometime and i'll show you some cool stuff.

I found the point where our OT taunted the last scion off the MT, as this is the instant that Rag would pop up, then continued until damage stopped.

p3 starts when the last Son of Flame dies, not when the last Lava Scion dies

Yes, this is a quick and dirty gauge (just going by second Scion death - which you know is within a few seconds of P3 starting). But if you really want to know exactly where P3 begins via logs, see below:


A more accurate way to find the exact moment Rag surfaces is to apply a combat log filter to Ragnaros around the ~30 second period you know the second intermission was ending and P3 was beginning. This corresponds to: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=15203&e=15252 . From that link, the combat log filters to try are either of "Source = Ragnaros" or "Actor = Ragnaros". The results are:

[22:28:33.097] Ragnaros Lava Bolt Local 49920 (R: 21394)
[22:28:33.988] Muleish Blade Flurry Ragnaros 12607
[22:28:37.988] Ragnaros hits Motelfxo Dodge
[22:28:39.811] Ragnaros hits Motelfxo 113642

The last lava bolt was at 33 sec (intermission ends), and Rag was up, became targettable at ~34 sec(p3 begins) as a Rogues Blade Flurry was damaging him, then hitting the MT by 37 seconds. We can see he had up to a ~1 second spawn delay, before his model fully re-emerges and becomes targettable by players. Note that Ragnaros himself is targettable for up to ~3 seconds before he actually even hits the MT.

So if people really want to know the exact time P3 begins, if you define begin as the time where Ragnaros became targettable: it was 22:28:~34 sec.

It's not necessary usually to be this accurate though for a quick log review - unless a guild is trying to see *exactly* how close they are to pushing 1-2 meteors.

[Phos]

Only real thing I can see from recount is that your hunters aren't doing as well as they should be. I hover around 35-37k DPS in phase 3 on a normal kill sometimes up to even 40-42k if I get lucky world in flames spawns.

[Hardwk]

unless a guild is trying to see *exactly* how close they are to pushing 1-2 meteors.

This would be hard to do as well, as we have found out, RNG plays a massive factor in if you get 1 meteor or not if you are in that 5-10 second range.
The amount of times our dps was SubPar, yet the meteor came after the World in Flames was awesome, however it worked the other way too, we would have amazing dps yet rag would push out the 2nd meteor before the World in Flames anyway.
On our second kill we smashed dps so hard anyway that the world in flames never happened. We even managed to get rag to like 16million health before he submerged. O.o

We could have a vent date sometime and i'll show you some cool stuff.

Always keen to learn more!

[clavarnway]

Yes, this is a quick and dirty gauge (just going by second Scion death - which you know is within a few seconds of P3 starting). But if you really want to know exactly where P3 begins via logs, see below:

On the first log there is 15 seconds between when p3 starts and when the last Lava Scion dies. On the second log there are 20 seconds between when p3 starts and the last Lava Scion dies. That's huge. If you go by when the last Scion dies the dps will always be considerably higher until you optimize getting the Scions down in a timely fashion.

A more accurate way to find the exact moment Rag surfaces is to apply a combat log filter to Ragnaros around the ~30 second period you know the second intermission was ending and P3 was beginning. This corresponds to: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=15203&e=15252 . From that link, the combat log filter is just "Source = Ragnaros". The results are:

I've watched many videos of Heroic Rag fights - the timers for p3 always start immediately when the last Son of Flame dies, whether Rag is targetable yet or not. So I've found the best method is to just go by when the last Son of Flame dies, and end it when dps on Rag drops to 0. I did a video of it for people if they are curious - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNVhd9_hAto

[TyrianFC]

This would be hard to do as well, as we have found out, RNG plays a massive factor in if you get 1 meteor or not if you are in that 5-10 second range.
The amount of times our dps was SubPar, yet the meteor came after the World in Flames was awesome, however it worked the other way too, we would have amazing dps yet rag would push out the 2nd meteor before the World in Flames anyway.

I still don't know exactly what causes Rag to sometimes choose to spawn the second Meteor before WIF. The only theory we've got from our experience is that if you're *super close* (~10.5%) to transition, he seemed more likely to summon meteor first before WIF. But, if you were slightly higher, like 11-12%, he seemed more likely to cast WIF first (allowing you to push him over before the meteor). We always did the same amount of seeds in P2 for all these scenarios (waiting till after the third sed before pushing him past 40%) - so it wasn't that.

Of course, this is all irrelevant once you can beat the second meteor legit. But as you said, when leading up to the first kill and a guild is struggling to beat the meteor - you indeed feel at the mercy of some RNG depending on what he spawns first - and it can get pretty frustrating not knowing exactly why hes doing it.

I've watched many videos of Heroic Rag fights - the timers for p3 always start immediately when the last Son of Flame dies, whether Rag is targetable yet or not

Semantics, but two different things are at play here. If players wanted to know exactly how much rDPS they need to do for p3, theyd need to take into account the time he is actually is targettable, even if the last Son dying is what triggers P3 to start.

The difference is small enough to not really matter (~1 sec or less), but if the first meteor spawned exactly at 90 seconds, when he was only targettable for 89 - the raid only has 89 seconds to get him to the p4 threshold value. Simply finding out when P3 starts visually ingame isn't the full story. The truth is, though, this is too trivial to matter for most - especially when HUGE things like the above post (whether he spawns second meteor first or WIF first) are taken into account. So your video is accurate enough for most intents and purposes, which is great btw, it helps a lot of people figure stuff like this out which they couldn't do themselves.

If anyone has found out exactly what causes Rag to sometimes spawn the second meteor first (instead of summon a WIF) - please share!

[Quaztro]

My guild has rag 25 hm on farm, for the past 2 weeks we've had only 1 meteor on our kill

Hehe, you've only just killed him twice ;-)

[Hardwk]

While both our kills have been with only 1 meteor, we are very capable of working with 2, as many MANY times we have got into P4 with 2, managed to kill both of them, then get jibbed by rag smacking the tank from some crazy distance during Empowered sulfurus, or by traps spawning in insane places.
Mind you, if you were to see our last kill, we get absolutely raped by the RNG god, but managed to kill it anyway. :3

EDIT:

If anyone has found out exactly what causes Rag to sometimes spawn the second meteor first (instead of summon a WIF) - please share!

If ANYONE had information on this, not only would it satisfy our guilds curiosity, it would immensely help any guild currently working on HC rag, simply because 1 meteor trivializes P4.