BiS Prot Pally Gear List (Non-Heroic)

[Kelsion]

I wanted to see what would be BiS for me in 4.3. I run normal mode, and every BiS list I have seen in prior patches have all been heroic BiS lists. I do understand that the heroic gear is gonna be THE best in slot, but there are many of us that just run normal modes. This list is for them.

Disclaimer: I made a choice about trinkets based on what I have noticed while tanking in 4.2. So far, anything over 200k health when buffed is wasted. With that in mind, I have disreguarded the trinkets with Stamina on them in favor of trinkets that provide mitigation or avoidance. If you are not at 200k health when fully raid buffed, then you may want to choose one of the stamina trinkets instead.

Head Faceguard of Radiant Glory Tier Token - Blackhorn - Reforge (None)
Neck Guardspike Choker Valor Points - Reforge (None)
Shouders Brackenshell Shoulderplates Raid Drop - Morchok - Reforge Dodge to Mastery
Back Indefatigable Greatcloak Valor Points - Reforge Expertise to Mastery
Chest Chestguard of Radiant Glory Tier Token - Ultraxion - Reforge (None)
Wrist Graveheart Bracers Raid Drop - Zon'ozz - Reforge (None)
Hands Handguards of Radiant Glory Tier Token - Zon'ozz - Reforge Hit to Mastery
Waist Forgesmelter Waistplate Valor Points - Reforge (None)
Legs Legguards of Radiant Glory Tier Token - Yor'sahj - Reforge Dodge to Mastery
Feet Stillheart Warboots Raid Drop - Ultraxion - Reforge (None)
Ring Hardheart Ring Raid Drop - Shared Boss Loot (Dragon Soul) - Reforge (None)
Ring Signet of the Resolute Valor Points - Reforge Dodge to Mastery
Trinket Resolve of Undying Raid Drop - Spine of Deathwing - Reforge (None)
Trinket Fire of the Deep Valor Points - Reforge (None)
Weapon Souldrinker Raid Drop - Madness of Deathwing - Reforge (None)
Shield Blackhorn's Mighty Bulwark Raid Drop - Blackthorn - Reforge (None)
Relic Stoutheart Talisman Valor Points - Refoge (None)

There are heroic versions of all the items listed above. You will have to adjust your reforging accordingly. The reforging was targeted to give mastery to items that had none since mastery has no diminishing returns. Then, I tried to equal out dodge and parry. Since dodge and parry have the same diminishing returns, and they give the same amount of avoidance per point, you want to reforge out of the higher one and into the lower one. In this case, without reforging, I had more dodge than parry. I first reforged any hit and expertise into mastery. Then, I reforged dodge into mastery on gear that had no mastery. This allowed me to get my dodge and parry to within 30 points of rating of each other.

Also, the weapon and one of the trinkets come from the actual deathwing encounter. If may be a bit before you see those items drop in normal modes. If the 378 sword from spider boss in firelands is the best you have, then the LFR version of the 4.3 weapon is a nice upgrade. If you have the heroic sword from spider boss in firelands, then the LFR version of the new sword will not be a good upgrade. Wait for normal mode raid drop. Get whatever trinket that is an upgrade till the deathwing trinket drops. It will probably be a while before you see it.

[Deleted]

around 10 posts

[Soisoisoi]

You can post links after 10 posts.

You could also break up the links and I'm sure a Mod or someone could fix them for you.

[xmanii]

After 10 posts I think

[Kelsion]

And I bet they wouldn't like it if I just reserved the next 10 slots in this thread just so I could post the links ... LOL I won't do that. Hate to get banned on my first day.

Well, as soon as it will let me, I will post the BiS list for you guys. I will also post a link to it on the WOW forums in the paladin threads.

[Deleted]

Yup, after 10 posts.

[Deleted]

Pm me the link and i'll post it for you.

[Kelsion]

Ok, I finally got to 10 posts so that I could post links in the forums. I edited my original post to contain the BiS gear list. These are my interpretations. They are based on my live experience and personal tanking style.

Also, I chose to make the shoulder slot the off-piece for two reasons. First, the non-tier shoulders has better stats than the tier shoulders. Second, the non-tier shoulders drop from the very first boss in Dragon Soul. This will make them easy to obtain because he will be the first boss that you put on farm status.

There is no other option for shield or relic. They are the only tank items for those slots in 4.3.

[Splosion]

Then, I reforged dodge into mastery on gear that had no mastery. This allowed me to get my dodge and parry to within 30 points of rating of each other.

Unless you're doing this with raid buffs, it's actually a bad idea. You get parry rating from kings and horn of winter, so you'll actually want your dodge to be ~200 rating higher than your parry. The "get them equal" mantra only applies when you're raid buffed. If you're not, do not strive to do this.

[MorphexEU]

Personally i'd go for tier shoulders instead of tier gloves.
Because CTC is not a problem, and you'd get more stamina with the shoulders instead of the hands.

---------- Post added 2011-11-14 at 12:23 AM ----------

I'd also actually go with the trinket proccing an absorb shield when you fall below 50% of your HP instead of that dodge trinket.

I am having a stamina approach since the magical damage in dragon soul is sick. Really. Sick.

[Splosion]

Personally i'd go for tier shoulders instead of tier gloves.
Because CTC is not a problem, and you'd get more stamina with the shoulders instead of the hands.

---------- Post added 2011-11-14 at 12:23 AM ----------

I'd also actually go with the trinket proccing an absorb shield when you fall below 50% of your HP instead of that dodge trinket.

I am having a stamina approach since the magical damage in dragon soul is sick. Really. Sick.

Agreed. We won't have much use for yet more mastery in 4.3, it's easy enough to cap from gear atm.

[Kelsion]

Unless you're doing this with raid buffs, it's actually a bad idea. You get parry rating from kings and horn of winter, so you'll actually want your dodge to be ~200 rating higher than your parry. The "get them equal" mantra only applies when you're raid buffed. If you're not, do not strive to do this.

I used rawr and applied the raid buffs and flasks and food buff and all that jazz.

---------- Post added 2011-11-13 at 07:45 PM ----------

Personally i'd go for tier shoulders instead of tier gloves.
Because CTC is not a problem, and you'd get more stamina with the shoulders instead of the hands.

---------- Post added 2011-11-14 at 12:23 AM ----------

I'd also actually go with the trinket proccing an absorb shield when you fall below 50% of your HP instead of that dodge trinket.

I am having a stamina approach since the magical damage in dragon soul is sick. Really. Sick.

For your first point, more stamina is not the issue. If you have 200k health, another couple thousand HP is not gonna help you. Also, if you are at 102.4% total avoidance (block+dodge+parry+5%miss chance passive) then a dodge on-use is not the way to go for you. Trinkets are subjective. I said initially that I had made some personal preferance decisions on trinkets. You should obviously make changes if you reach cap on anything.
The shoulders have better stats but also are gonna be easier to obtain earlier on than the tier shoulders. Ultimately, it will be a personal choice. I choose to stack as muck avoidance/mitigation that I can. I haven't reached cap yet. Will cross that bridge when I get there.

[Splosion]

I used rawr and applied the raid buffs and flasks and food buff and all that jazz.

---------- Post added 2011-11-13 at 07:45 PM ----------



For your first point, more stamina is not the issue. If you have 200k health, another couple thousand HP is not gonna help you. Also, if you are at 102.4% total avoidance (block+dodge+parry+5%miss chance passive) then a dodge on-use is not the way to go for you. Trinkets are subjective. I said initially that I had made some personal preferance decisions on trinkets. You should obviously make changes if you reach cap on anything.
The shoulders have better stats but also are gonna be easier to obtain earlier on than the tier shoulders. Ultimately, it will be a personal choice. I choose to stack as muck avoidance/mitigation that I can. I haven't reached cap yet. Will cross that bridge when I get there.

Would that involve gemming avoidances? I've come to find that the general consensus (among the higher-end raiding tanks) is that this method doesn't really gain you a lot. Taking less damage overall doesn't really mean a lot, unless your healers are resorting to spamming their biggest heals just to keep you alive. It's usually when you go for long periods without healing, and RNG based survival doesn't exactly sit perfectly with that mantra. However, a 750 stamina trinket (Well above 10k hp at this point, my 391 scales of life provides me 11.5k health) with a proc that absorbs hits is exactly in-line with what I'm talking about. Proc-when-you-need-it trinkets are the best kinds of trinkets (usually, depends on the proc), because they're there exactly when you need them. Similar to how Blood draining was back in wotlk.

[MorphexEU]

Currently on the PTR i have roughly 250k HP during a raid encounter ( because of the shammy change). And i still feel that the magical damage eats too much of my HP, which means i still want more HP. For normal it is currently "fine", but on heroic i would get whacked pretty fast.

[Deleted]

this is the first time i have seen that souldrinker i must have missed it somewhere because using that against baelroc in firelands would be lol if the proc takes current max hp after the stacks.

[xtramuscle]

'The reforging was targeted to give mastery to items that had none since mastery has no diminishing returns.'

I haven't checked the values of that gear you listed, but even in T12 (hc) gear, im actually reforging away from mastery. I'm guessing if you stick mastery on everything, youll end up WAY over the CTC cap. My estimate is that you end up with around 20% dodge/parry and FAR too much Mastery, in many cases where there is no mastery, thats ideal, and in some rare cases where there is mastery that should infact be reforged to a pure mitigation stat such as parry or dodge.

This is just speculation, again without number crunching. In 4.2 (low end) gear reforging to mastery was always the answer, in T13 that wont be the case.

[Splosion]

I haven't checked the values of that gear you listed, but even in T12 (hc) gear, im actually reforging away from mastery. I'm guessing if you stick mastery on everything, youll end up WAY over the CTC cap. My estimate is that you end up with around 20% dodge/parry and FAR too much Mastery, in many cases where there is no mastery, thats ideal, and in some rare cases where there is mastery that should infact be reforged to a pure mitigation stat such as parry or dodge.

This is just speculation, again without number crunching. In 4.2 (low end) gear reforging to mastery was always the answer, in T13 that wont be the case.

Why not simply push your survival higher by gemming for more stamina? The simple reason mastery is so nice for us is because the DR doesn't ever kick in. By block capping, you've madde stamina more useful.

Side note - Your cape socket bonus is useless to you.

[yeto]

im going with this for normal modes

http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=33777888 normal
http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=33780072 Hc


not 100% sure on it as wowhead cant tell dodge parry and block right - but once on live i will fix it, and stack stamina after block hit and expertice caps

[Splosion]

im going with this for normal modes

http://ptr.wowhead.com/profile=33777888

8% hit
56 expertice
3661 masteri
sould be block capped with relly nice tps and dps

not 100% sure on it as wowhead cant tell dodge parry and block right - but once on live i will fix it, and stack stamina after block hit and expertice caps

Tank dpsing is for when you have the content on heavy farm. Really, don't do this for progression, you lose a significant amount of survival, even if you're block capped. Especially if you gem for expertise (You can get away with some reforges, but you have 40k less health in that gear than my character does on live), it's really not good play to do that, with all the magic damage in DS.

[yeto]

Tank dpsing is for when you have the content on heavy farm. Really, don't do this for progression, you lose a significant amount of survival, even if you're block capped. Especially if you gem for expertise (You can get away with some reforges, but you have 40k less health in that gear than my character does on live), it's really not good play to do that, with all the magic damage in DS.

the hp pool shown in the link is wrong for sure im am running in hit/expertize cap gear on live with 174k - upping my ilvl form 386 to 395 sould not make me drob 20k hp