Gearing in 4.3

[Spotnick]

My 10 man just put it on group loot and we roll need for main and off-spec and trade if needed.

It went 6/7 HC, so I guess we did something right.

Gearing up people faster than the others usually result in people losing interest because they have nothing to gain from showing up to your raid if they already have all the loot.. this is what happened every time we prioritized tank loot in 25 man in the past, they all got bored and left and we had to gear new tanks.

[Natureseer]

the idea that one role "needs" gear more than another role is outdated. if youre using a loot council system, loot distribution should be based on who the item is the biggest upgrade for or would get the most use out of the item (or other factors, such as attendance.) in my opinion.

[Deleted]

Prioritizing gear distribution is a bad idea.

For most gear, you aren't going to have overlap between roles outside of a few misc. drops. If you fully gear your healers and tanks first, are they going to give you 100% attendance and performance for weeks/months after they stop being able to get upgrades? I know in several guilds that I have been in, attendance from tanks/healers drops off when they get sick of content (which usually lines up with when they get fully geared) leaving your other raiders in a lurch.

I have seen this happen many times, i have to agree, its a bad idea.

[Tahirii]

In a 10m raid if you have a balanced comp this shouldn't much of an issue/option. Most loot is itemized more for one role than others, yes of course there is always overlap, but generally you are at the mercy of the RNG loot gods for gearing up certain people.

I agree though that the idea of giving gear to certain people just based on their role is a bad idea. I get what you are saying by wanting to 2 heal asap, but you could end up stuck on a boss for several weeks waiting for your healers to be geared enough to 2 heal, where 3 heals + better dps would have gotten it down.

[Deathzero]

Ok well I have recieved enough attention and comments. I thank everyone for there insight and allowed me to come to a better understanding. I will most likely go back to loot council w/ stress on gearing up the biggest upgrades and healers/tanks. I still am iffy on the whole situation. To clarify earlier no my shaman does not have the legendary but I do. I am also raid leader and help run the guild. The problem I have is we have some members who are flaky and was the reason we went back to 10 from 25. Our 10 core is stronger then the 25 but some people are still loot driven and not boss kill driven(unlike myself and the people who help me with info on fights) I am also worried about having to sit an outside dps for a healer. I can switch to healing but I am not as strong on my priest as I am at healing and I would rather see the others play their mains since only one other player in the raid I know of is capable of healing close to the level of the other healers(boomkin)

Anyway thank you for everyone's time and comments it was greatly appreciated.

I guess my reason for even thinking this way is brought on by our post nerf inability to kill beth with 3 healers in 4 attempts but then we went to 2 healing and it fell over that attempt. So I don't even know if we will get to end of the tier pre nerf in 4.3. I hope so but that is another subject for another day.
Thanks

[Tyler-Stormrage]

my opinion on where this matters: teir drops and 2h strength weapons. Since Blood Dks use them, they will be fighting with your fury, arms, ret, and DK(usually uh only, seeing as how 2hfrost<dw frost) raiders for those weapons. Personally maining a retribution paladin since 4.2, i was very upset when the guild decided to give the Hand of sulfuras to the blood dk tank over me, our top damager, because he used 2h weapons, and he was the tank, so he won automatically.

[PBitt]

There really isn't much purpose for this, providing upgrades for all three roles is fairly equally important. In my ten man it's just open roll but if's it's a huge upgrade to one person and a minor to another, it's going to go to whoever gets the bigger upgrade. Roles aren't really a concern, it evens out in the end.

[Deleted]

Sorry about my harshness, but gearing healers and tank first is propably one of the most retarded ideas ever.

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 01:16 PM ----------

Just out of curiousity, how far would you go with prioritising tanks and healers before dps? Would it be like that some people say agi cloak is bis for tankadins due mastery, tank 391 1h is very good for DW warrs/DK. Or just like that you will give some items that are equally good to everyone (for example loot tokens, living embers) to them prio?

Also sorry about my lack of skill in usage of adding post and other mechanics of forum

[Deathzero]

Sorry about my harshness, but gearing healers and tank first is propably one of the most retarded ideas ever.

---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 01:16 PM ----------

Just out of curiousity, how far would you go with prioritising tanks and healers before dps? Would it be like that some people say agi cloak is bis for tankadins due mastery, tank 391 1h is very good for DW warrs/DK. Or just like that you will give some items that are equally good to everyone (for example loot tokens, living embers) to them prio?

Also sorry about my lack of skill in usage of adding post and other mechanics of forum

Wow lay off the caffine. As far as I would go would prolly be 1/2 weeks before going back to rolling and even spread. You seem to think ALL gear would go to tanks/healers, but I highly doubt that would ever happen. Maybe all tier would go to them for first week maybe 2 since we have 5 conq and 5 vanq and 0 prot token users and we only get prot tokens. Was just an idea anyway. More then likely I might just quit wow I am sick of dealing with whining emo children in my guild that complain when i sit them and figure they can just show up when they want but now that they are sat for 1 week its a huge deal. ugh.

[Darkfrosty]

Where have the dps checks been this expansion? I can't remember a fight where you hit enrage timers with halfway decent dps. Anyways, this only really matters for tier gear, since most heal/tank/dps gear is itemized differently.

Really dumb statement you obviously didn't do fights such as brutallus in SW or Baleroc before the nerf

[HunterSalty]

I don't agree with prioritizing, but if you must do it, reward players with the best attendane record. Nothing's worse than gearing up a new player only for him to leave for a different guild.

[Stevoman]

I hate to go down this path, but the "DPS checks" on 10m this tier were almost non-existent (H Baleroc in the first week or two). If DS winds up the same, you'll be better off just running 3 healers, evenly distributing the loot, and avoiding hurt feelings entirely.

Really if you have a properly-comped raid, the only tough choices will be Int rings/necks, and agility leather if you have a Feral tank. The rest of the loot should be fairly self-selecting.

[Deathzero]

I guess i could state comp atm. Might help people see what I deal with for loot. It isn't a great comp but its the best players tbh.
Tanks:
Bear
Pally(OS heals)

DPS
spriest(also OS heals)
warlock
mage
boomkin
rogue
frost dk

heals
hpriest/disc
resto druid

On bench atm:
Ele shaman
more frost dks
fury warrior
anothe warlock
hunter

[Mammoon]

While I do agree this really isn't much of an issue at all for 10 man groups (as very few players (especially of different roles) will be sharing gear at all if you have a decent raid comp), I am honestly shocked at how many people say prioritizing gear to certain classes or roles is dumb.

All pieces of tier will be dropping from DS in 4.3. Some tier bonuses are much much much better than others. To not realize this and plan drops around this is your own fault.

[cleotaurus]

The people in this thread are misguided about the concept of a DPS "check." Just because there isn't an enrage timer doesn't mean that you aren't being punished for low dps. Examples:

Bethtilac, low dps on spinners creates a burden on healers who have to heal while spinners are alive; dps determines how long you sit in p2
Rhyolith; Need to get him into p2 before 5 minutes otherwise superheated will wipe your raid, in 10m getting the spark dead before fragments spawn is needed unless you have a second tank
Alysrazor; Getting initiates dead before the next set spawns is important otherwise they will be free casting
Baleroc; obvious
Domo; Good raid dps can kill him before you even have to deal with orbs making the fight trivial
Rag; the number of questions about p3 dps speaks for itself. Getting 1 meteor makes it a lot easier. Better dps makes handling of sons easier, soft enrage is killing rag before being overrun by dreadflame

Just because enrage timers are irrelevant does not mean dps is irrelevant. Just about every fight in firelands is easier with better dps. The tank and healing requirements are just a "check" for every fight, if you can heal and tank the right from start to finish, healing "more" and tanking "better" doesn't make the fight shorter.

Note that I am not contending this is true from a theoretical perspective, but it is true due to the way fights in firelands are designed. By design, the fights are made easier with better dps, but not so much with better healing/tanking. This can easily change if the fights are designed differently in firelands.

[Deleted]

Where have the dps checks been this expansion? I can't remember a fight where you hit enrage timers with halfway decent dps. Anyways, this only really matters for tier gear, since most heal/tank/dps gear is itemized differently.

Let's give this a go shall we.

Starting off with T11.
To what I remember when it was progress, doing Magmaw in more than 3 head phases was not going to happen
Doing Maloriak with more than 2 green phases was just stilly.
Atra = running out of gongs…
Nef… you should know the DPS requirements

Firelands

Beth – Not 100% but without the dps you will not be able to burn her down in p1.
Lord – Pretty much the same I think (can you still do it with more then 3 sparks)
Baleroc – Need I say more :P
Rag – Paragon spent a lot of time wiping due to not meeting the dps requirements in p2 and p3

[Deleted]

I think whoever gets the highest roll gets the loot, it's the fairest way..

[Alphamage]

My opinion is that you need to always keep a balance when gearing the raid team... yes, give the Tanks their T13 tokens first, I agree with that but DPS gear is important as well. Having strong Healers trying to keep up "weak" DPS trying to beat the enrage or take down adds is not optimal.
Distributing loot equally between raid is the way to go imo.

[Nobleshield]

As a tank I've started to pass on heroic tokens because I was told that's how progression guilds worked - once tanks get some of their upgrades and can live through the boss' hits, you want to gear your DPS and Healers so they can keep the raid alive during burn fights and beat the enrage timer. I suppose I've been screwing myself then :P

[Deleted]

For this level of raiding, I would only agree that your tank should get his 4set asap because of what it does, and the last 2 bosses having a raid wise cd will be helpful, mainly for the the first, 2nd 5th 6 7 and 8th boss fight.