Faerie Fire - a huge quality of life issue.

[Catsqt]

Indeed, annoying things reduce my quality of life. So, the question is, do druids become unplayable if you reduce/alter the vanish suppressing effect of Faerie fire?
Saying that it's ok for you is an invalid argument.

that's what i was trying to point out but most ppl simple refuse to get it

[Deleted]

I'd say you always getting the opener is also unjustified, now will you agree do put a duration on stealth if they nerf FF duration? I think not.

[Sackman]

Or vice versa tbh. Make it either not prevent stealth or lower the duartion

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 12:23 PM ----------


way to show how clueless you are dude

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 12:24 PM ----------


stealth for druids is nothing like stealth for rogues. Shapeshifting for druids is more like stealth for rogues[COLOR="red"]

"Way to show how clueless you are", then a comment like "stealth to a rogue is like shapeshifting to a druid".

That's quite incredible.

[Catsqt]

"Way to show how clueless you are", then a comment like "stealth to a rogue is like shapeshifting to a druid".

That's quite incredible.

the only incredible thing here is you if you don't see how shapeshifting for druids is the same as stealth for rogues

[Sackman]

the only incredible thing here is you

I see, you are trolling everyone then. Gj.

Regarding you're edit, you are welcome to point out how me turning into a cat that increases my stats, normalises my white damage, provides 1.0 attack speed, provides stealth, powerful melee abilities, combo points, openers and finishers, bleeds, debuffs, gap closers, melee buffs incl LotP, run speed and probably other things I have missed off the top of my head - is the same as stealth for a rogue.

It's not the same at all. When I turn into a bear, I don't do it because I need to reopen on you which is what Vanish does, I do it because, it is a different facet of my 3 possible attack methods, 1. Defensive (bear), 2. Offensive (Kitty), 3. Healing (Caster), rogue utility resides in being IN OR OUT OF STEALTH, whereas mine resides in switching forms. They are not the same.

But there is one similarity. While faerie fire locks you out of stealth, there are things to some classes that only become available when im in or not in a form. Polymorph, and Hunter Fear, for example.

The fact that you are bad at the game and don't recognise Rogue's potential nor can you reach it, does not make a good argument for your quality of life.

And I'm not trolling either, the fact you are bad, is unfortunate for you, which makes your quality of life point merely an opinion for your own character and not rogues as a whole.

If you cannot beat or get close in 1v1 vs a feral, poor you.

[Demetrion]

It's dumb to compare rogue to druid, but one ability with such a long duration which completely cripples the class is also dumb. Yes, it affects other classes with it (mages, ferals) but most of the rogue damage comes from stealth, and with one global cooldown you are preventing that damage and forcing a rogue to use 2 of his defensive abilities just so you could reapply it after CoS ends.

The idea is fine, stealth prevention is something what is indeed needed, but duration is just way to long. Shorten the duration to 10 seconds and make FF undispellable would be a pretty good solution.

[Catsqt]

I see, you are trolling everyone then. Gj.

nah. I'm merely trying to prove a point but how can I do so if people are so inexperienced in pvp they don't even know the basics?

[Sackman]

nah. I'm merely trying to prove a point but how can I do so if people are so inexperienced in pvp they don't even know the basics?

You thinking faerie fire is such a problem shows that your highest PVP rank is likely challenger.

[Deleted]

If you know your "pvp basics" then please explain to me, as you seem to avoid it, why you don't consider putting a duration on stealth? Oh right, it would gimp you and it's only unfair if it affects rogues everything else for other classes must be changed around your class which already has more than enough tools to deal with others outside of vanish.

[Sackman]

If you know your "pvp basics" then please explain to me, as you seem to avoid it, why you don't consider putting a duration on stealth? Oh right, it would gimp you and it's only unfair if it affects rogues everything else for other classes must be changed around your class which already has more than enough tools to deal with others outside of vanish.

Stealth is not a problem, the game is balanced around it.

For rogues not to have the opener they are at a disadvantage, same as ferals.

Which is why generally, the opener decides the fight in rogue vs feral.

[Theleklol]

Now throw the balance arguement at me again please. Rogues do not need Vanish, it only encourages bad Rogues to stay bad.

Please seek psychiatric help.

[Catsqt]

I see, you are trolling everyone then. Gj.

Regarding you're edit, you are welcome to point out how me turning into a cat that increases my stats, normalises my white damage, provides 1.0 attack speed, provides stealth, powerful melee abilities, combo points, openers and finishers, bleeds, debuffs, gap closers, melee buffs incl LotP, run speed and probably other things I have missed off the top of my head - is the same as stealth for a rogue.

It's not the same at all. When I turn into a bear, I don't do it because I need to reopen on you which is what Vanish does, I do it because, it is a different facet of my 3 possible attack methods, 1. Defensive (bear), 2. Offensive (Kitty), 3. Healing (Caster), rogue utility resides in being IN OR OUT OF STEALTH, whereas mine resides in switching forms. They are not the same.

Stealth for druids (can't use it in combat) is:
1. Pounce
2. Ravage
3. A way to stay unseen before you enter combat

Stealth for rogues (with vanish making it usable in combat) is:
1. Cheap Shot (Pounce)
2. Ambush (Ravage)
3. A way to stay unseen before you enter combat (same thing for druids)

Now lets look closer:
4. Sap (Cyclone)
5. Garrote (in a way can be compared to Bash or any form of cc, for example roots)
6. Vanish, as in a way to gain survivability via stealthing in combat (can be compared to going Bear form in more ways than one: waiting out cc on your healer, waiting out your enemy offensive cds, mitigate incoming damage, recuperate)
7. Find Weakness, 70% armor mitigation, can only come from stealth (same thing as feral bleeds)

[Deleted]

At the risk of sounding like a troll, Vanish is such a cowardly ability. Stay until the end of a fight, don't run away from it. As for FF I'm pretty sure that the non-feral version breaks you out of Cat/Bear form.

That's like saying don't use demonic portal, it's cowardly to use an ability that takes you away from a fight to recover for a while. Same with Blink, sprint, long arm of the law, death grip to peel someone away from someone else, fear, mind control.. Any ability that gives you some peace of mind for a few seconds in a fight that needs it.

On topic, It is annoying, yes. 2v2ing with a rogue atm on my disc and luckily we seem to be faring fine, but there have been some occasions when vanish > cheap shot >kidney shot would have been awesome over just a kidney. Gotta live with it!

[Sackman]

Please seek psychiatric help.

He is right, against a Ferals.

Wrong against other classes like... well pretty much every class.

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 11:03 AM ----------

Vanish is not bear form. Not in feral vs rogue which is what you are indicating. You don't need to gain survivability against a druid, they need to go bear against you.

You are showing that you do not know how to play rogue vs feral.

[Theleklol]

Regarding you're edit, you are welcome to point out how me turning into a cat that increases my stats, normalises my white damage, provides 1.0 attack speed, provides stealth, powerful melee abilities, combo points, openers and finishers, bleeds, debuffs, gap closers, melee buffs incl LotP, run speed and probably other things I have missed off the top of my head - is the same as stealth for a rogue.

Try feral dps while in caster form. You'll quickly understand the point of the comparison.

Sub pvp damage in mid-high ranked arena is extremely poor outside of Shadow Dance and Prep/Vanish.

Think of it in the sense that without forms, a druid is completely useless. Without stealth, a rogue wouldn't be worth taking into arena.

[Catsqt]

He is right, against a Ferals.

Wrong against other classes like... well pretty much every class.

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 11:03 AM ----------

Vanish is not bear form. Not in feral vs rogue which is what you are indicating. You don't need to gain survivability against a druid, they need to go bear against you.

You are showing that you do not know how to play rogue vs feral.

What the fuck are you on about I'm not talking about feral vs rogue duels omg...

[Juvencus]

Oh oh....let me get this straight. You want to be able to use all of your strongest attacks every 5sec you can get out of combat and NO class to be able to counter that? Hmm that seems balanced. While all you have to do is have a dispelled available.

You are saying Stealth to a rogue is like Shapeshifting to a Druid? Do I have to remind you what happened to PvP Ferals?

[Sackman]

Try feral dps while in caster form. You'll quickly understand the point of the comparison.

Sub pvp damage in mid-high ranked arena is extremely poor outside of Shadow Dance and Prep/Vanish.

Think of it in the sense that without forms, a druid is completely useless. Without stealth, a rogue wouldn't be worth taking into arena.

Not true at all.... Because we are not talking about stealth we are talking about vanish providing stealth and faerie fire negating it. In the arena, you have a dispeller. So arena is null. It has to be 1v1, and really it has to be feral because healer obv is always going to be inbalanced and rogues dont lose to kins.

"What the fuck are you on about I'm not talking about feral vs rogue duels omg... "

Then why are you on about faerie fire? If it's a healer, hardly anyone can kill a healer anyway. If its kin, how the hell are you dieing to a kin.

[Wildtree]

I don't play a rogue. The class just doesn't "talk to me". I leveled one to 60 years ago, and I just didn't like it. Bottomline, i don't know much about em.
I have a druid tho. Yet again, I don't play feral. So I can only talk from the Moonkin and Resto perspective.
What I experience is, that rogues have ways to get around my FF. Usually I use the non feral FF, mainly for the armor reduction. Very well aware of the effect on stealth, I notice applied to ferals, the druid won't dissapear on me anymore, the talent needed to cleanse that is too deep into the resto tree. Rogues however, I dunno... I know the basterd has ff applied, two or even three stacks, and still manages to get away... Not every rogue, but some..
I don't know how they do it, due to my lack of class knowledge. Other than cleansing pots and healer dispell.. no idea...

Overall I think, we just live what the others have. That's what makes pvp kind of interesting. How can I beat you and your abilities.
How can I outsmart you. The fact that I have to try to use my abilities you cannot counter before you use yours is what I like.

[Catsqt]

Oh oh....let me get this straight. You want to be able to use all of your strongest attacks every 5sec you can get out of combat and NO class to be able to counter that? Hmm that seems balanced. While all you have to do is have a dispelled available.

You are saying Stealth to a rogue is like Shapeshifting to a Druid? Do I have to remind you what happened to PvP Ferals?

What do you mean "use all your strongest attacks every 5 sec"? Read my post comparing rogue stealth and druid shapeshift on this very page and see who can spam powerful moves every 5 sec and who can't, with FF up or without.