SWTOR German Interview .. Advance Class is a Permanent Choice

[Deleted]

I think that's for the best, honestly. As far as I know, ACs are supposed to be mostly seperate classes, and I think we all agree that Class change is bad.

On the other hand, 1 possible AC respec until, say, lvl 30, wouldn't be game breaking at all. But oh well, I guess you have to search a bit before making the big choice, then if you're not content, just reroll

[Chrysia]

My only problem with this is that by 10 you don't really have an idea on how the advanced classes play unless you have played a toon of that class before hand.

So If you do end up hating the advance class you have basically wasted several hours getting to 15+ to try out just some of the class core abilities. I wish they actually gave the starter class some mini advance class skills like a heal and a tank skill if the acs have a tank and heal spec.

On this point, and to that end, someone earlier brought up a dev quote basically saying that they are going to work very hard to make it much clearer what exactly the two ACs will play like.

[Deleted]

Not really. A Protection Paladin only has about 6 different abilities than the other Paladin specs. In SWTOR, each AC gets its own set of abilities, and they get unique abilities in the talent trees.

But they're the six abilities you use *all the time*.

Again, this isn't about whether ACs "are" classes, this is about whether switching ACs at 50 will be more different than switching from DPSing to healing (which I *strongly* suspect it won't be)

[Cakka]

There is but one single reason (and all the implications)
It detaches players from their original choice of "class". It takes away from the uniqueness of playing a certain class - or AC, I am not saying it would not be convenient and might evenbe beneficial for a a guild when it comes to class composition for a certain raid or whatever. But on the grand scale of things I believe it hurts the key aspect of what makes you like a character you play and bonding and identifying with that choice.

I pretty much completely disagree with that. What makes me identify with the class is the storyline they have, not which abilities I have, and this make me feel like I have to "clone" my character which is very gamey to me.

[Deleted]

That's why game designers don't let you switch a rogue to a mage but make you go through the chore of leveling(?) and acquiring both gear and player skill again.
And again and again.

So why don't they make me roll a new character to tank on my Warrior if I leveled as Fury?

[Trollsbane]

I just wanted to apologize for a bit of fail on my part. When I woke up and initially read through some posts, I them went back to post. When I posted here about being on topic an the points mentioned, and ACs meaning not being the point, I though this thread was this one: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...te-summit-info... that listed many different points. That's why I was talking about being in topic and not derailing.

So yeah, I'm not afraid to say when Im wrong, and I was wrong here. This topic is relevant to this thread. Keep posting constructively and don't mind your mod that needs his coffee before his brain works correctly. =)

[Chrysia]

So why don't they make me roll a new character to tank on my Warrior if I leveled as Fury?

Because that's not whats at issue here. If you choose a Jedi Guardian, you can be a DPS or a tank. If you choose a Jedi Sentinel, however, you are stuck as DPS.

[Deleted]

Sure it is a little unlucky you will be getting the same storyline a second time but then again - other mmos dont even have custom made storylines for your character outside some class-specific quests few and far between.
Why would you even want to try another AC - with unique new abilities - if all you care about is the storyline and not the abilities? Just play another story with another class then. Sure, the storylines will be great I hope but the vast majority of the game will be spend in either PvE or PvP combat - steering your character's abilities and not conversing with people :-P

Even still you could always make a dark side character after you have played through as the light side guy.

[Deleted]

Because that's not whats at issue here. If you choose a Jedi Guardian, you can be a DPS or a tank. If you choose a Jedi Sentinel, however, you are stuck as DPS.

No, I'm aware of that, I'm just suggesting you can't have it both ways.

Why is it okay to let me respec my character from DPSing to tanking, but completely immersion breaking and game destroying to let me respec from a dual-wielding DPS class to a single-weapon DPS class?

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 06:47 PM ----------

Why would you even want to try another AC - with unique new abilities - if all you care about is the storyline and not the abilities? Just play another story with another class then. Sure, the storylines will be great I hope but the vast majority of the game will be spend in either PvE or PvP combat - steering your character's abilities and not conversing with people :-P

I care about the storyline while leveling and the abilities in endgame. Therefore I want to be able to try multiple different stories while leveling, and multiple different abilities in endgame.

[Chrysia]

No, I'm aware of that, I'm just suggesting you can't have it both ways.

Why is it okay to let me respec my character from DPSing to tanking, but completely immersion breaking and game destroying to let me respec from a dual-wielding DPS class to a single-weapon DPS class?

Because, again, they are different classes, not just specializations. I'll be leveling a Sith Sorceror, devoting his will and time to learning the mysteries of the Dark Side, not a Sith Assassin, bending the Dark Side to cloak himself in shadow to eliminate enemies of the Empire.

[Deleted]

So why don't they make me roll a new character to tank on my Warrior if I leveled as Fury?

Probably the same reason you dont have to roll a new character if you decide your Jedi Sage's healing days are over and it is time for some good ol' facemelting!

A little convenience is needed in our day and age.

A class is able to specialize in order to offer people the choice wether they want to,in case of the warrior, be that badass plate-armored infuriated god of war mowing through the enemies and leaving body parts on the ground. Or a more level-headed but equally plated and physically strong bulwark of protection guarding the weaker companions in your posse. It is very much in touch with the warrior lore and playstyle. (not to mention tanking and healing are an acquired taste)

[Trollsbane]

Here's what I posted in the old thread about this:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...level-50-or-no


The fact of the matter is, no matter how many people want to argue differently, the people that designed the game have said that ACs are seperate classes. How do you get off arguing against the people that made the game on terminology they created for the game?

---------- Post added 2011-10-23 at 03:23 PM ----------

Ask a Jedi @ the fansite summit:

Each Advanced Class is absolutely recognized as a full class and as such have the flexibility of 3 skill trees and multiple possible “specs.”

Daniel:

Each of the advanced classes is a full, flexible class with various trees that allow specialization. So although the Juggernaut is perhaps best suited to play a ‘tanking’ role, a player could specialize in other roles

Georg:

Your Advanced Class choice very much defines how your character plays from the moment you choose it. Their impact is more akin to that of a different class in other MMOs than that of a different 'spec'. A Sith Sorcerer is very, very different from a Sith Assassin.

Mos Eisley Radio:
http://moseisleyradio.com/2011/06/29...r-not-to-swap/

Georg on Class design philosophy:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...71#edit9672671

[ravenshaelo]

This just means my altoholism will be twice as rampant. I'll have all classes on both sides levelled, each of them with different ACs.
I can't WAIT!!!!!

[Kepi]

I dont see where you can say none of this is confirmed .. listen to the audio and you will hear that this was at the SWTour @ Bioware that a lot of fansites were invited to go take a tour and play a bit of whats in the game.

The questions and answers are all in plain english when you listen to the audio.

Things said(didnt read the new pages after i left in page 4):

Combat Log - wont be in game @ launch but its a strong MAYBE that it will be implemented into the game later on. They just want to do it right.

AC Respec - Confirmed that they changed their mind, respec to different AC's within the base class will not be allowed until they see a need for it much later on after launch.

Addons - Addons will not be in the game @ Launch but they want to implement the right to make addons and use in game but they want to do it correctly, they want to observe what the community wants once they get into Operations and HardMode Flashpoints.

A lot of these answers were coming from the devs mouths in the audio interview, from what they said in the audio file is that everything they mentioned will be set in stone unless otherwise proven when game launches in december.

[Deleted]

I care about the storyline while leveling and the abilities in endgame. Therefore I want to be able to try multiple different stories while leveling, and multiple different abilities in endgame.

And that is what I dont get.

Other mmos give the same exact quests time and time again, no matter which class you choose.

I think you guys should be happy for what swtor offers, which is 4 very unique storylines. If you absolutely must play the same basic class again just because you want to play its other AC at end game... well, there is always doing it the way every other mmo does it - repetition ;-)

[Deleted]

Probably the same reason you dont have to roll a new character if you decide your Jedi Sage's healing days are over and it is time for some good ol' facemelting!

A little convenience is needed in our day and age.

A class is able to specialize in order to offer people the choice wether they want to,in case of the warrior, be that badass plate-armored infuriated god of war mowing through the enemies and leaving body parts on the ground. Or a more level-headed but equally plated and physically strong bulwark of protection guarding the weaker companions in your posse. It is very much in touch with the warrior lore and playstyle. (not to mention tanking and healing are an acquired taste)

Exactly. So why is it *out* of touch with (say) a Jedi Consular's lore and playstle for them to switch from healing to melee dps, instead of ranged DPS? What would be lost by letting me switch from a Sage Healing Spec to a Shadow Tank Spec?

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 06:55 PM ----------

Because, again, they are different classes, not just specializations. I'll be leveling a Sith Sorceror, devoting his will and time to learning the mysteries of the Dark Side, not a Sith Assassin, bending the Dark Side to cloak himself in shadow to eliminate enemies of the Empire.

And again "they are classes" is not an answer. "Priest" is one class in WoW, but I could play a Holy Priest bringing peace and joy to the world, or a Shadow Priest bending my enemies to my dark will.

Why can't my assassin devote her time and will to learning the mysteries of the Dark Side (particularly since she *shares* quests with the Sorcerer, and so presumably will *actually be doing that*).

[Chrysia]

Exactly. So why is it *out* of touch with (say) a Jedi Consular's lore and playstle for them to switch from healing to melee dps, instead of ranged DPS? What would be lost by letting me switch from a Sage Healing Spec to a Shadow Tank Spec?

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 06:55 PM ----------



And again "they are classes" is not an answer. "Priest" is one class in WoW, but I could play a Holy Priest bringing peace and joy to the world, or a Shadow Priest bending my enemies to my dark will.

Why can't my assassin devote her time and will to learning the mysteries of the Dark Side (particularly since she *shares* quests with the Sorcerer, and so presumably will *actually be doing that*).

You are taught by your trainers, not by your class quest givers. "It's a class" IS an answer. It's acceptable to have someone trained in the basic ways specialize a bit differently for convenience so the game can progress, it's not acceptable for, using your WoW example, a Warrior to one day say "F** this, I want to heal" and become a priest.

[Deleted]

And that is what I dont get.

Other mmos give the same exact quests time and time again, no matter which class you choose.

Exactly, and a *unique selling point* of SWtOR is that it doesn't.

I think you guys should be happy for what swtor offers, which is 4 very unique storylines. If you absolutely must play the same basic class again just because you want to play its other AC at end game... well, there is always doing it the way every other mmo does it - repetition ;-)

But that's exactly the point, this game is being *sold* to me on the assumption that it will include less repetition, and one of the things I thought was *good* about the game was the fact that it had four broad classes rather than eight narrow ones. I considered this to be *good RPG design*. The fact that they are now pushing the idea of eight narrow classes means I consider the game to be *less well designed*.

---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 07:00 PM ----------

it's not acceptable for, using your WoW example, a Warrior to one day say "F** this, I want to heal" and become a priest.

Why isn't it okay?

[Deleted]

Exactly. So why is it *out* of touch with (say) a Jedi Consular's lore and playstle for them to switch from healing to melee dps, instead of ranged DPS? What would be lost by letting me switch from a Sage Healing Spec to a Shadow Tank Spec?

What will be lost is the identity of the class and the significance of your choice. It really cannot be that hard to communicate. After all Bioware seems to see it the same way, see Trollsbane's post above, ACs are considered separate classes...

And again "they are classes" is not an answer. "Priest" is one class in WoW, but I could play a Holy Priest bringing peace and joy to the world, or a Shadow Priest bending my enemies to my dark will.

Why can't my assassin devote her time and will to learning the mysteries of the Dark Side (particularly since she *shares* quests with the Sorcerer, and so presumably will *actually be doing that*).

Because that is how mmorpgs are made. You pick a class, you utilize the class in the way it is designed. If you want to play a different class - roll a different class.

Your Jedi Sage can bring peace to the world and heal stuff. He can also melt enemy faces and cause havoc. Same exact thing as your example with the priest.

Keep in mind, it is in Bioware's best interest for you to spend as much time with their game as possible. If you want to have every class at max level, 8 classes means twice the amount of time spent with the game as 4 classes and a switch to unlock the other 4 as you please.

[Ozires]

There is but one single reason (and all the implications)
It detaches players from their original choice of "class". It takes away from the uniqueness of playing a certain class - or AC, I am not saying it would not be convenient and might evenbe beneficial for a a guild when it comes to class composition for a certain raid or whatever. But on the grand scale of things I believe it hurts the key aspect of what makes you like a character you play and bonding and identifying with that choice.

Please look at this post all of you who're just saying 'AC is class, you don't switch between classes'. That is an opinion. This is an argument.

And I think this is really valid. It will make tor have more like 4 classes instead of 8 classes. The AC pairs will be fused together and lose their uniqueness. The only good counter that I can come up with is that it won't hurt tor if there's only 4 classes since there's only 4 truly different storylines. But if that was completely true then they would've just given each charachter 5 trees to choose from instead of 3.
Then again you could claim the unique identity attaches to the Trooper and no to the Commando and switching between ACs is like switching between being army and navy. And switching between Consular and Smuggler is like switching between a professor and a black market trader.
(maybe not the world's best comparison, but you catch my drift)

In the end it'll most likely come down to whether they prefer the utility of switching, over the work they've put into fleshing the ACs into different playstyles. (Assuming no one comes up with anything really bad about the utility-function.) I still think utility will have this fight in the end since people really want it (like they're asking for triplespecs after dualspecs). I'm also hoping they'll add more classes in expansions so they'll be more variety.