4.3 retri -54% crit sanctified wrath -not exagerated?

[Requital]

Paladins get a true snare in 5.0. (Talent)
WoG will have no CD (again) in 5.0.
Judgement will generate 1 Holy Power in 5.0.

Right now, they are balancing what they CAN without having to rework half the class/spec. Mists will see the big upheaval.

This matters why? FYI The snare in 5.0 will still be crap as you are still forced to do mediocre damage at best when you use your snare.

PvP is going to take a huge hit with next tier and while you say PvErs are happy, Ret didn't get some huge ass buff the AW nerf is pathetic on all cases.

[Deleted]

Cirtting 37k as anything right now is retarded and shouldn't happen (happened to me when i fought on in a BG with me having 4.3k resil). A class that can use its execution move with an ability that gives 20% damage increase and having a 60% chance to crit is just stupid.

You sir, are a moron. Do not ban me for this comment. He is literally a moron.

Not banned, but still infracted. Don't call others idiots. - Malthanis

[Valrax]

Our damage outside of Avenging Wrath is laughable compared to other melee plate classes, and AW is dispellable anyway so most comps can counter it.

True, but your normal, non birst damage is what could be buffed, your brust is pretty retarded right now and thats all im saying is, i agree with your damage needed a buff, but your burst has need this nerf for a while now.

---------- Post added 2011-11-20 at 07:20 PM ----------

There are classes that can crit for way more than 37k. Fury can crit for over 100k.

Yes, but really only in PvE. The only time they could do that is understand certain circumstances. And Fury isn't the pvp spec for wars anyways, so for a war to go into an arena as Fury would just be dumb. As ret, which is your only dps spec to be in PvP or Pve, be able to do damage such as that shouldn't be allowed.

[Aurinax]

If you're doing what Ret is good at (read: insane offheals and support, with support burst every 2 minutes, or a bit more often with lucky Divine Purpose procs), this change won't affect you much.

If you're trying to play Ret like a Warrior or Death Knight (tunnel vision, hand of freedom and WoG on only yourself, etc), then yes, I can see why you would feel worthless... Taking away HoW's burst does sort of suck... kind of kills our ranged game. But in arena or BG's chances are you've got a glass cannon or monster truck that you can make nearly unstoppable with your WOG's and buffs.

Side note: 5 stack Censure is stronger than the strongest Affliction Corruption on the PTR atm, which is something that should be considered, given it's undispellability and not having a target limit.

2nd edit: There is a LOT of 1v1 based QQ in this thread. No, you can't kill a healer, but you can make said healer defenseless against your BG or arena ally... or rather, make that ally a force to be reckoned with.

[Valrax]

You sir, are a moron. Do not ban me for this comment. He is literally a moron.

How am I a moron? It's more or less my opinion but their burst is stupid, their normal damage isn't. I think you are the idiot here my good moronic sir.

[Ap0calypse]

Game has become so imbalanced and stale I'm currently wondering why I'm still subbed. If it weren't for 4.3 and seeing the deathwing raid I'd probably be long gone. Currently playing Skyrim and other games untill 4.3 and then Star Wars releases.

[Deleted]

Funny thing about this ridiculous QQ thread is that you didn't check the other patch changes for ret paladins. First of all they are balancing the CDs affect on total DPS output. They increased our dps by 5% with the two-hander specializition passive. Then they increased our Judgement damage by a lot. Ofc the 54% crit nerf is high, but they still gave us more DPS increase in both PvP and PvE than took away. So please next time just check the rest of the patch notes before make a QQ thread.

[Grimsdott]

There are classes that can crit for way more than 37k. Fury can crit for over 100k.

Sure. Providing he's PvE geared, on a blue PvE geared opponent, with berserking and DW (and maybe some flag debuff stacks). Impossible in normal circumstances.

From what I've seen on PTR, ret damage went only up and by a lot. Reducing burst while increasing consistent damage is a good way tbh.

[Deleted]

I do feel like the nerf is a bit too excesive should be toned down to 30% on 3/3 not to 6 lol. Also to ppl refering to Ret pally burst being stupid, well a mage doing a 150k shatter is okay? ...

[Deleted]

Paladins right now, there burst is stupid.. after 4.3 this just means ret pallys burst will be NORMAL and not OP as shit

[Vuagnon]

You sir, are a moron. Do not ban me for this comment. He is literally a moron.

You shouldn't call someone like that just because you don't like what he said. Calling people with such names won't solve anything for anyone.

On the subject, I'm of the same opinion that the HoW nerf will have its ramifications in PvP, and will mostly hurt the spec because of the mobility problems and HoW being the only viable answer to continue applying pressure during moments of being kited, even if AW is still dispellable and its duration is limited. Those who PvE more often will live the enjoyment of beating Fury Warriors in the dps charts though and PvPers will have to be content with the new angelic tier they are going to wear. The evil in my mind however says that 4.3 could be even worse than 4.1 for Ret PvP. We will have to wait and see I guess.

[Therm]

Just about every comp has some way to get rid of wings, so why bother about crying when you get to only use HoW once....

[MrM3tod]

they nerfing retri palas??? lol time to come back to wow.

[Deleted]

Yes, it is exaggerated. "Omg, some rets still manage to kill healers. What shall we do about that? I know, remove the last that's left of their burst!"

54% nerf is so ridiculous that whoever came up with it would deserve to be shot in the stomach and left to die in a desert. I'd understand if they'd cut it half to 30% or hell, even to 20% - but to spend 3 points just to get 6% crit? I hope the devs get raped by a band of angry gorillas.

Hello, nerdrage.
Ret Paladins are being buffed in other ways, as far as I know. As for you people saying it's PvE balance in the making - it's clearly a PvP change. HoW having +60% crit through a talent regardless of health is obviously far too much. That's all there is to it.

[Deleted]

Balancing issues in PvE will always impinge on PvP, often negatively. PvE tunings are obviously Blizzard's priority, which sucks for sure for anyone more dedicated to PvP given that these changes often screw you.

The main options are;

1) Roll FotM.
2) Continue to play the class you enjoy despite it's state.
3) Go play a dedicated PvP game.

...I'm sorry but you're a plank... I'm guessing the numerous nerfs to classes due to PvP which have had impacts in PvE are just figments of my imagination then. Cool.

[Vuagnon]

Hello, nerdrage.
Ret Paladins are being buffed in other ways, as far as I know. As for you people saying it's PvE balance in the making - it's clearly a PvP change. HoW having +60% crit through a talent regardless of health is obviously far too much. That's all there is to it.

We are talking about something that happens every once 2 minutes for 20 sec and can be dispelled right away. Don't get me wrong on this one, I have always advocated decreasing burst (number of cooldowns to manage) to normalize overall damage and improve the rotation, but if you don't improve the spec's mobility, it will cause inevitable ramifications in PvP. There just isn't an escape from that. You can't Templar's Verdict or melee swing for 5% more someone who isn't in your melee range. The effect of this change could be negligable if there were made some improvements for the lack of movement in PvP.

[zcks]

True, but your normal, non birst damage is what could be buffed, your brust is pretty retarded right now and thats all im saying is, i agree with your damage needed a buff, but your burst has need this nerf for a while now.

The problem with this ^ is that without overpowering CD's the spec would lack anything making it worth bringing because normal DPS isn't worth crap when you cant reach your target due to lacking a snare & instant gap closer.

I agree though it is bad design having that much burst tied to CD's because it makes you to powerful vs melee & crap vs people who can offensively dispel.

Hopefully in MOP they will fix this problem, they have already decided to give paladins a snare. If they do get an instant gap closer as well then they could be in a good spot depending upon how heals for others & yourself scale.

[Deleted]

We are talking about something that happens every once 2 minutes for 20 sec and can be dispelled right away. Don't get me wrong on this one, I have always advocated decreasing burst (number of cooldowns to manage) to normalize overall damage and improve the rotation, but if you don't improve the spec's mobility, it will cause inevitable ramifications in PvP. There just isn't an escape from that. You can't Templar's Verdict or melee swing for 5% more someone who isn't in your melee range. The effect of this change could be negligable if there were made some improvements for the lack of movement in PvP.

I'm not saying the change, nor the state of Ret Paladin PvP, is where it should be. I'm simply saying that this change is reasonable, because of HoW being too strong pre-20% health.
They probably made this change thinking Ret Paladins were performing well (or too well) in PvP, with little or hard-to-fix issues. I can't say they're wrong about that, as I don't personally play Ret in PvP. I only know that I don't see a terrible lot of them in 2s or 3s, but that's subjective and proves nothing.

[Malthanis]

Okay, that's enough of of this thread. Closing.