Rag 10 Sons of Flame help

[pionock]

Hey fellow MMO-champ goers, got just a small dilemma:

My guild is currently working on Rag and we're able to get to P4 at times and we want to get there more often so we can really see how our positioning for the Breadth of Frost is going to work. Unfortunately, we have too many attempts where the Sons will spawn and one or two seem to slip their way through the cracks and get to the hammer.

My question for those that have this conquered is do you have any advice on how to deal with the adds more effectively to elminate the chance of a supernova happening? Here's my raid comp for those interested:

Tanks
Prot pally
Feral Druid (those sometimes a port pally due to work)

Healers
Holy priest
Resto shaman

DPS
Ele Shaman (me, but sometimes I'm on boomkin as I'm mainswapping)
Another Ele Shaman (though most times, it's a frost DK)
Combat Rogue
Shadow Priest
Arcane Mage
Aff lock (though sometimes demo if I'm boomkin)
As you can see, there is usually at least one knockback from me, but I don't like having to use it unless absolutely necessary and I feel that a lot of the times that I've used it is because we didn't deal with the adds more efficiently. Does anyone have any better advice or is there nothing we can really do? We do understand that getting them to 50% is the big key but I'm sick of seeing certain adds get through for no discernible reason.

[gmart248]

That is an interesting comp.

[Aethilus]

Well I'll tell you pretty much flat out, Demo is better than Aff for HC rag. Especially on 10man where your number of stuns knockbacks etc. really come into question. He should probably be demo at all times.

I'm concerned about how you don't like to use your knockback. It is a tool that your class has, abilities like thunderstorm were taken into consideration when balancing the encounter. Part of being an ele shaman on it is reactive and properly timed use of thunderstorm during transition phases.

Other than that:

1. Make sure your pally is glyphed for holy wrath for the extra stun.
2. When your lock is demo make sure he's using the felguard stun. (A painfully large amount of people don't, it is very sad.)
3. Extra ele shaman also has to use his thunderstorm or if the DK is there a death grip.

[pionock]

Well I'll tell you pretty much flat out, Demo is better than Aff for HC rag. Especially on 10man where your number of stuns knockbacks etc. really come into question. He should probably be demo at all times.

I'm concerned about how you don't like to use your knockback. It is a tool that your class has, abilities like thunderstorm were taken into consideration when balancing the encounter. Part of being an ele shaman on it is reactive and properly timed use of thunderstorm during transition phases.

Other than that:

1. Make sure your pally is glyphed for holy wrath for the extra stun.
2. When your lock is demo make sure he's using the felguard stun. (A painfully large amount of people don't, it is very sad.)
3. Extra ele shaman also has to use his thunderstorm or if the DK is there a death grip.

Let me try to explain. I didn't say I dont like using my knockback. I like it to be perfectly honest. What I meant was is I'd rather use it for the times when an add(s) spawn really close to the hammer and may need some extra love. I'm talking about dealing with the adds more effectively damage wise so we don't essentially "waste" our CC abilities on adds that didn't necessarily need it because we could have DPSed them more efficiently. I'm even throwing down EQ on the bigger clumps of adds and sometimes on close ones because it has that small chance to stun.

[Aethilus]

Let me try to explain. I didn't say I dont like using my knockback. I like it to be perfectly honest. What I meant was is I'd rather use it for the times when an add(s) spawn really close to the hammer and may need some extra love. I'm talking about dealing with the adds more effectively damage wise so we don't essentially "waste" our CC abilities on adds that didn't necessarily need it because we could have DPSed them more efficiently. I'm even throwing down EQ on the bigger clumps of adds and sometimes on close ones because it has that small chance to stun.

I apologize for misreading, if you need it on the ones that spawn very close to the hammer then absolutely use it then. While you may be using your available knockback every attempt, the other raid members may not be utilizing their knockbacks/stuns. Honestly, previous to this thread, I don't think I've seen any that were consistently hitting p4 and yet having trouble with transitions. Seems like more have trouble with seed phase.

[pionock]

Yeah oddly enough that phase is a joke for us and we spend no more than 5-6 seconds killing seeds with the occasional 1 or 2 that need finished off. It's just seeing those adds get through is disheartening. I'm not one to toot my own horn, but I'm doing everything in my power to burst down as many as I can with auto critting LvB CL and 7-9 stack Fulminations but there's only so much i can do.

[Pokty]

Communicate. We usually have a couple of people who are always on a particular side, and some people who move around depending on the spawns. They really are made out of paper, so as long as the right people are in the right spots, nothing should get through (nothing with high health anyway).

[pionock]

Dammit, I guess we're gonna have to just play better. We even have certain people set to go to certain sides depending on where they spawn. Thanks anyway for the advice, I'll just try to pass along that this boils down to a L2P issue.

[Kethmil]

I use to assign a son of flame to each dps/tank (+one to heals, if three-healing it). Melees to the closest ones to the hammer and ranged to farther ones, depending on their abitiy to do burst damage.

Also use to have our pala heal close to the hammer to stun any son that got speedy (glyphed avenging wrath is mandatory here).

The other tank and I are always assigned the same son of flame. Third from left and third from right, so we are always near the badass big add we have to tanke in second interphase.

Once every1 knows perfectly wich son is supposed to dps the phase is a joke.

Some ss that might help you assigning sons of flame to your members. They are in spanish, but guess are easy enough for understanding even if you cant understand the language (derecha=right, izquierda=left, centro=center, M = hammer). Keep in mind that positioning is relative to the other positions, not a physical one. Meaning if you're number 3 and hammer falls on the right you are supposed to dps the second son counting from left side, regardless where they respawn.

1: Tank
2: Melee
3: Ranged with burst
4: Tank
5: Ranged/Healers
6: Ranged without that much burst ability.
7: Melee
8: Ranged with burst.

img832.imageshack.us/img832/3920/ragnarosizquierda.jpg
img143.imageshack.us/img143/6823/ragnarosderecha.jpg
img267.imageshack.us/img267/4659/ragnaroscentro.jpg

Hope it helps you.

[arden714]

Assigning people to flames is a good way to deal with the problem on 10 man. Allows to clearly see who exactly is struggling and where stuns/knock backs will be needed. Our 2nd 10 man uses this method, works pretty good. Our main 10 man just wings it, sends melee + dk to the side with 3 or less and the rest of us go to the long side. As a prot warrior this is our bread and butter. Our stun capability + mobility to get there is phenominal . I realize you don't have one, but it's important for non-DPS roles to realize how vital it is for these phases in stuns, knockbacks and whatever dmg they can contribute.

Best of luck on Heroic Raggy in the coming weeks!

[Aleysia]

You haven't mentioned anything about how you divide your raid depending on the different arrangements of Sons + hammer and whether that might be the issue. "Slipping through the cracks" may mean that dps isn't distributed right, or that stuns/knockbacks are not being used on the right ones, or both.

[Kardone]

something small but who knows could help: Make sure the mage continues to hit AB on rag while he's summoning the adds. This way you go into transition with a 4 stack and can nuke the crap out of a son with no ramp up time. Look at your previous attempts and map out dps cd's where needed based on average transition times.

good luck!