No LFD - What are the long term effects?

[Booniehat]

Hey guys, I'd just like to ask regarding the lack of LFD. I've heard people will be in non-cross server space ports, where they can shout LFM for dungeons.

Can I ask, what do you guys think of this system? Being a cata baby, I only know life with a LFD tool. I know some people really hate on it, I personally feel that overall, it has more positives than negatives.

Pros that I can think of:

1. More social aspect - people are now accountable as being d-bags on dungeons will impact their reputation. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand how people can act when they think they can get away with never seeing you again. So even though this is one point, it's a pretty big plus.


Cons:
1. Elitism/exclusivity
Probably not a problem at low levels, but I can see max level heroics being limited to "geared" people. Like how we see "LFM for Firelands... MUST HAVE FIRELANDS ACHIEVEMENT/378 gear etc etc." - creating a cycle of exclusion of casual or lesser geared players.

2. Unfair Blacklisting
Some people have bad days, or have problems with their class initially. People might abuse this fact, badmouthing certain players they hated because of 1 bad experience or simply because of personality clashes during previous runs. Admittedly, this *shouldn't* be too common.

3. Non-american players with different timeszones might never be able to grab a group if their numbers are small.
As a Singaporean player, I'm worried I might logon at times where there are only limited amount of players. For example, I might logon at USA's 7AM time. At most, I'll have some other oceanic players. But I'd be willing to bet there aren't that many, and they might not be in my level range, etc etc. It does affect why I can't raid on WOW, and with LFD I'm afraid it might affect my dungeoning. LFD helped with this, ensuring there is always someone out there who wants to dungeon.

Note: From my understanding, there aren't any oceanic servers at launch. I'll admit this might change when certain servers get reps for being unofficial "oceanic" servers, alleviating the problem.

4. Long times to set up a group
"um, hold on guys, respec. Hold on, need to get my X. Need to auction Y." Also, related to problem 1, people might just not want to group with players in "inferior" gear. So you have to keep waiting and actively searching till you get someone.

What do you guys think?

[dd614]

People would have to group with others on their server and actually use social skills. Those who suck and are just overall bad people will be rightfully blacklisted and won't get groups. They'd likely quit the game and call it a day, but Activision Blizzard can't have that because it means lost $$$$.

[Deleted]

It'll forge a stronger server community in the long run, which is one of the things sorely missing from MMO's these days. It'll also encourage more people to behave like a regular, friendly person in dungeons due to reputation becoming important again.

[Spraxle]

I won't comment on your Cons for 1 and 2 but I wanted to say something about 3 and 4.

To 3, you can almost guarentee there will be a couple servers that are 'unofficial' for different regions. But I would bet on some Oceanic servers launching after a while. You also have the option (or at least I could have sworn I remember seeing a dev say this) to make your character(s) on any server in any region. So you could have your basic game and play on a EU server without having to buy an EU copy of the game.

To 4, Companions! Yes they don't equal a player but there are going to be some easier instances you can run with 2 people and 2 companions or 3 people and 1 companion. Plus it seems Bioware is really pushing for the community in this game. They want you to be guilded and doing groups and such. I'm sure there will be times when finding groups is slow but I don't think it'll be as bad as most think it will be.

[Ragnarocket]

Quite true, I think that companions will relieve the people who don't want to search for groups endlessly. All you need is one other person and you have a successful group with your companions. From what I've heard people have had success with their companions doing DPS and healing in lvl 50 content (tanking has been kinda yes...kinda no from what I hear).

[Booniehat]

I have 0 doubts social benefits would be immense.

I'm actually super worried about the gear levels. Imagine a new player, who starts in 4-5 months from now. When he reaches level 50 and wants to go on a heroic, no one wants him because he's only got mediocre gear. Or, imagine wow had no LFD, and there is a ilevel 333 tank going "LF DPS for heroics". People look at his gear, pfft. No thanks, you'll probably wipe.

You sort of see this in ZA/Zg already. At launch, people were doing 7-8k DPS and could finish the dungeon. Now it's "WTF NOOB? You're doing 15k DPS? /votekick".

[Deleted]

I like LFD as it requires no effort and its nice when you feel lazy.

It would be nice if it was implemented, but server restricted to encourage community. I find shouting in trade (or its equivilent) to be extremely annoying and tedious.

A system like DDO has would be nice. Its basically like a better version of the old wow raid finder where people can put up their group and what they need etc in a list and people can apply to join.

a pic to explain better.

[Dakia]

I think that the positives of no LFD far outweigh any perceived negatives.

I loathe the LFD that WoW added.

[Booniehat]

I like LFD as it requires no effort and its nice when you feel lazy.

It would be nice if it was implemented, but server restricted to encourage community. I find shouting in trade (or its equivilent) to be extremely annoying and tedious.

A system like DDO has would be nice. Its basically like a better version of the old wow raid finder where people can put up their group and what they need etc in a list and people can apply to join.

Agreed. I think the tradechat spam thing is just... a drag. A bulletin board style of looking for group (like your picture) sounds good actually!

[Gerendfs]

I like LFD in WoW and am looking forward to the raid finder. I don't have much time to play so it's typically quicker to jump into a 15min LFD queue than sitting in town for an hour trying to find a group (and yes, that hour applied to before LFD was introduced as well, at least on my server)

[mystik]

you do realize WoW and other games were just fine without it?

it just requires a bit more ... effort. it builds community and you actually get to know people and are less likely to be an asshole if it's people on your server you may group with again.

I don't agree with most of your cons. I'm just going to assume you never played WoW without it.

that said if they ever do put in something of a group match maker, it could be fine AS LONG AS IT IS NOT CROSS SERVER. it just finds people on your own server and puts you in a group. no instant teleporting, and promoting such laziness.

[Mister K]

I am so happy there is no LFD, so so happy. The only usefulness of LFD tool is when you have limited time and want to jump into a Flashpoint/Dungeon as soon as possible, that's it.

Hope they wont bring LFD into TOR.

[Ragnarocket]

Agreed. I think the tradechat spam thing is just... a drag. A bulletin board style of looking for group (like your picture) sounds good actually!

I would totally go for that, as long as players could put the groups together themselves but still have something like that where everyone could check would be the best of both worlds I think.

[Dunkman]

I hate the LFD in WoW, basically it's completely worthless until you outgear the content. I honestly found it faster to get an instance done before it came out...you'd group with like minded people on your server and knock it out. Yeah you probably get into the instance faster with LFD, but until people greatly outgear the instance you have to spend several queues to actually find a group that can finish it.

[Deleted]

everyone shouting over and over in chat is horrible though, as a leader finding 25 people when people keep dropping in and out, constantly amending the message, spamming for 15minutes to get that last tank, returning to town 5 times because people leave when you have entered the raid. My god I dont miss any of that one bit. The fact that the system in DDO works perfectly, yet wow could never impliment it, speaks volumes about wow devs and players, i sincerely hope SWTOR doesnt follow same path.

[Booniehat]

you do realize WoW and other games were just fine without it?

it just requires a bit more ... effort. it builds community and you actually get to know people and are less likely to be an asshole if it's people on your server you may group with again.

I don't agree with most of your cons. I'm just going to assume you never played WoW without it.

that said if they ever do put in something of a group match maker, it could be fine AS LONG AS IT IS NOT CROSS SERVER. it just finds people on your own server and puts you in a group. no instant teleporting, and promoting such laziness.

As I wrote, I've only had experience with a wow with a finder. I agree with you, cross server is the too much of a sacrifice of community for conveniece.

That said, most people won't address my first (which is also the biggest) con. In the end, LFD and LFR, for all its flaws, were designed because there is precisely such a problem of people unable to get into groups. Optimally people would just group up by spamming chat. But we all know, looking at how PUG raids are formed, that there are a lot of caveats to this. Need this achievement. Minimum gear/score (ugh).

[Deleted]

I would totally go for that, as long as players could put the groups together themselves but still have something like that where everyone could check would be the best of both worlds I think.

Yeah in DDO the leader has total choice over who joins. If you apply to join the group then the leader gets a message saying 'Rangnaroket 14brd wishes to join [accept] [decline]' then of course you can whisper them and ask if they are healer or whatever.

Its not perfect and could do with a few extra things tacked on but it works just fine.

[Dacu]

People would have to group with others on their server and actually use social skills. Those who suck and are just overall bad people will be rightfully blacklisted and won't get groups. They'd likely quit the game and call it a day, but Activision Blizzard can't have that because it means lost $$$$.

Use social skills? I didn't know "LFM ____" was a social skill.

[Booniehat]

everyone shouting over and over in chat is horrible though, as a leader finding 25 people when people keep dropping in and out, constantly amending the message, spamming for 15minutes to get that last tank, returning to town 5 times because people leave when you have entered the raid. My god I dont miss any of that one bit. The fact that the system in DDO works perfectly, yet wow could never impliment it, speaks volumes about wow devs and players, i sincerely hope SWTOR doesnt follow same path.

^This. I've been in a couple PUGs and, looking at trade chat, seen this happen a lot. I think people do tend to reflect with nostalgia on pre-LFD times. Forming a group for a trivial dungeon? Nobody wants to do it anyway. Forming a group for a hardcore dungeon? Your gear isn't good enough. Granted, this is a pessimistic POV, but still it happened. Hence LFD.

---------- Post added 2011-11-22 at 08:05 PM ----------

Use social skills? I didn't know "LFM ____" was a social skill.

Not for the LFM part, but I suppose having to go through all the trouble of recruiting a bunch of other players would tend to make you more friendly. A con of the LFD is: Join dungeon. Facerollllllll. End. "Thx guyz". XXX has left party. Might as well play with bots sometimes :P

[Roose]

More gravy!