No LFD - What are the long term effects?

[Geekzilla]

The effects?
Your would-be skill won't just be recognized by your gear and achievments, but by your actualy reputation on your server.

For those talking about reputation: Name 1000 characters on your server, and what their reputation is. Do you think ANYONE other than a trade troll really has a reputation with that many people? If you wind up with a player from your own server in an LFD group, what are the odds that you know that person, or at least their reputation? Heck, most trade trolls don't have 50% name recognition once you start asking players that don't hang out in trade chat (yeah, that would be most of the players).

Sure, without LFD, you've got a more solid reputation with your circle of friends/acquaintances, but your average WoW player, even before LFD, probably couldn't name more than a few of the raiding guilds on their own server, let alone how good the various players are.

And personally, I've got no qualms with non-cross-server LFD. I wouldn't mind having to go to the flashpoint the normal way. This isn't me being lazy, it's admitting the fact that there is a non-negligible number of players that are too shy/quiet to start a group, or in some cases even to ask strangers if they can join their group.

[Chrysia]

Geekzilla, I don't think anyone is truly against a server-specific LFD realistically. When people say "LFD" I'm pretty sure they are speaking specifically about the current WoW incarnation, which I view as a complete failure. I use it, primarily because I have to. Nobody forms groups in trade anymore, the only way to form a trade group anymore is to be a tank selling queues.

Also, the primary reason there is no reputation is BECAUSE of the LFD. You never see these people, never play with them until you start raiding. Then, you usually get with 10 or 25 people, and those are the only 10 or 25 people you really interact with. Of course there is no reputation, you never see anyone from your own server.

[Jarsniffer]

BioWare has been studying WoW for the past few years, and I have no doubt that they have seen and taken note of the effect of changes like Dual-Spec, Random Dungeon Finder, Guild Leveling, Achievements, Transmog etc.

They know that LFG is responsible for:
The ever shortening life span of each successive content patch and expansion
The death of the server social community as an entity
The explosion of sociopathic behavior in the player base

BioWare is not run by fools, trust them to do what is best for the long term survival of their massive investment, they will do what their researchers tell them is the best course of action, not what the vocal minority of entitled whiners demand.

[Puremallace]

1. Elitism/exclusivity

2. Unfair Blacklisting


3. Non-american players with different timeszones might never be able to grab a group if their numbers are small.

I call this the "I PLAYED WOW SO EVERY GAME MUST BE LIKE THIS" effect.

You guys get x-server LFD once the WoW playerbase quit. I am calling it now x-server LFD in 3 months. It is PROVEN to work time and time again it is a net benefit for a game.

JUST BECAUSE BLIZZARD SCREWED IT UP DOES NOT MEAN ANOTHER DEV WILL DO THE SAME. Seriously not a hard concept.

[Lemmiwink]

Actually, the wow dungeon finder was something of the smartest things they ever thought of at Blizzard. However, they implemented it completely wrong. First of all, if you're gonna make a LFD tool, you gotta keep it server only, not cross realm. This does destroy community and it does lead to people not getting any rep amongst other players. On my server I joined a random dungeon in TBC as a mage, under geared and everything but still got invited to the third best guild on the realm at the time and given a regular raid spot. It took a lot of effort but it paid off, 6 months after I did that heroic BM, I was mage class leader in that guild and people actually talked about me not only in trade but also on the realm forum.

The second thing that Blizzard has done wrong and that definately destroyed the experience for many is the large number of 4000 player servers. This made it hard to sustain more than 5-10 good guilds on these servers, let alone doing things like pug raids, pug heroics etc. I never understood why Blizz didn't change out more of their hardware and made it possible for servers to have 25000 people on each server. Yes, you could end up being a nobody on servers like that, but at least finding something to do wouldn't be hard.

My wish for star wars; Big servers (15k+), No LFD tool (If there is one implemented, let it be server wide, not cross realm).

Would also like an auction house where u can put in an order of one or more items stating what u want and how much you are willing to pay for it, and when it is posted by a trader that likes your deal, it will automatically be bought by you, offline or online. This would encourage professional crafters to craft alot and would be an end game of it's own.

A tab in your character tab that says what guilds you have been a member of and for how long. This would make it easier for guild leaders to spot guild jumpers and give guild jumpers a clear disadvantage if they like to jump alot.

Some sort of customizable armor, like a family crest on your cape or something like that, that would be personal and only the people in your "family" could wear it.

[DecemberSpawn]

I like LFD as it requires no effort and its nice when you feel lazy.

It would be nice if it was implemented, but server restricted to encourage community. I find shouting in trade (or its equivilent) to be extremely annoying and tedious.

A system like DDO has would be nice. Its basically like a better version of the old wow raid finder where people can put up their group and what they need etc in a list and people can apply to join.

a pic to explain better.

I don't know if this has been said yet I have yet to read through all of the posts in this thread, but there is already a feature in the game set up. When you go to your /who page and see all the people in the area you can check a box in the window that shows people you are looking for a group, you can also write a comment saying what you are looking for. Not to mention if other people have this they turn purple on your screen.

Also to the people saying LFG ruined WoW, I have to definitely agree in that aspect. Although, not all the blame can be put on Blizzards hands. The game is having it's 7 year anniversary which means almost a new generation of kids are playing WoW these days, and well if you have eyes and a brain it isn't hard to see that parent's don't do crap with raising children these days and thus we get these disease infested pollups that pollute every pug using the LFG.

[Geso]

honestly the only thing i wanted from WoW's current LFD is the teleport, everything can just go away. lfd should just be teleport to dungeon, screw flying to Mechanar for my daily teleport me thar :3

[Meleti]

My goal is to find a guild and then only run flash points within that guild. Effort/reward is way, way off if you just try to form groups in general chat.

[Encarn]

So I posted about the negatives of Cross-Realm LFD and how it enables what others in this thread deemed appropriately as "sociopath behavior". I wish I could find my arm length post on the WoW forums but I lack the time and inclination.

Basically, there are huge positives in cultivating a server community by limiting a LFD-like tool to a single server.

Sure life becomes more difficult because you have to put forth an effort to gather people... BUT, look at what I just wrote.

The whole point of an MMO is to play with a large, diverse group of people who share a common interest in a game. I honestly feel that I was hobbled by the "AFK in Dalaran in queue" gameplay style. I never met anyone new! When I played with an amazing priest or warrior tank in a 5-man I had little to no hope of EVER playing with them again, let alone trying to recruit them to the guild or PUG in a raid.

WoW has so twisted their game with convenience and individualism that people are now shocked, SHOCKED that they may have to interact with strangers in an MMO to accomplish goals.

I, for one, welcome this as strong medicine that MMO players need. Learn to be a part if the game world you play in. Meet some new people. Hell, one of the coolest guys I ever played with I met in trade chat looking for someone to duo BRD with in Vanilla at 2am.

Leave the WoW-induced comas of social indifference.

[Deleted]

My goal is to find a guild and then only run flash points within that guild. Effort/reward is way, way off if you just try to form groups in general chat.

yeah i am hoping that this is the way it will work out for me, but its my experience that it doesnt. Ever said '/g want to do x?' *silence*? people are often in the mood to do different things at different times. I was lucky to have a good friend to play with who was a good tank and was usually up for doing anything. He even boosted half my characters to 80 in wotlk However when he was offline I was often left with nothing to do but solo. My guild in wow was pretty dead outside raid times tbh.

[Encarn]

I think people are forgetting that you can also use companions as stand-ins for players. So, in reality, if one of you is a tank/healer, you may only need 2 people total (you and a pug) to complete a Flashpoint. That's pretty reasonable for LFG channel. And you may make a new friend.

[Karazee]

I call this the "I PLAYED WOW SO EVERY GAME MUST BE LIKE THIS" effect.

You guys get x-server LFD once the WoW playerbase quit. I am calling it now x-server LFD in 3 months. It is PROVEN to work time and time again it is a net benefit for a game.

JUST BECAUSE BLIZZARD SCREWED IT UP DOES NOT MEAN ANOTHER DEV WILL DO THE SAME. Seriously not a hard concept.

You're completely missing the point. Blizzard didn't screw up the random dungeon finder itself (not talking about the vote-kick or the satchels, I mean the LFD itself). The tool was an amazing concept and it did exactly what they and the rest of us said it would do: it revolutionized WoW and completely changed the game and the way it was played.

Unfortunately, it's the side effects of the LFD and the problems that the community has inflicted upon itself because of it that have caused it to be a massive failure. The LFD itself, though, works pretty damn well.

The biggest problem I see about the random dungeon finder is it's not just the advertised dungeon that's random. The people you get are random, too, and wayyyyy too often people seem to forget this and expect the best instead of assume the worst. Just like we used to roll the dice to get 8-minute Azjol-Nerub or pulling-teeth Halls of Reflection, we also roll the dice to get the tank who's geared out in full heroic Firelands gear or the just-hit 346 DK tank wearing half Bloodthirsty pvp blues and Dual Wield tanking in Frost Presence.

[Geekzilla]

Also, the primary reason there is no reputation is BECAUSE of the LFD.

I date back to vanilla, so I know what they're saying, it's just a lot less of a point than they think it is. Yes, in vanilla, you'd tend to have a larger circle of friends and acquaintances, but beyond that circle, there was still the majority of the server that you didn't know. Yes, players are more likely to act up when they think they'll never see anyone in the group again. But really, the reason that the quality of groups has gone down is because the instances are more accessible and have better rewards, so almost everyone is running them, not just the people that take the time to be good at what they do (even in vanilla, they weren't the majority).

The ever shortening life span of each successive content patch and expansion

So basically, your complaint here is that LFD makes it so that more people run instances and get loot from them, and that's BAD?

they will do what their researchers tell them is the best course of action, not what the vocal minority of entitled whiners demand.

I think you might be surprised by the results. Quite honestly, most of my friends/guildies are running more instances and having more fun because of LFD.

[WarFalcon1]

I think you might be surprised by the results. Quite honestly, most of my friends/guildies are running more instances and having more fun because of LFD.

I'm not so sure. I remember some pretty epic SM and Dire Maul runs back in vanilla. True they took a bit to form, but thats how i got into my first guild. By being a decent player and actually conversing with my group mates. No way in hell that would happen these days with LFD. It's a chore to do dungeons now, unless running with friends. Which defeats the purpose of LFD anyway.

[Vexies]

What is the long term effects of no looking for disgruntled no accountability a hole tool? A fantastic chance to build server community, friends and a reputation that matters. Its the best thing they could of done and I very much hope the stick to their guns. Having a cross sever looking for group tool destroys community and makes developers lazy as they no longer need to balance server pops they can just cheep out and implement more Looking for group style tools ( like the horrid looking for raid tool in that other game)

If your worried about groups, play times, support, gear because your a later comer to the game... there one place that can help.. one word that solves these issues.. guilds!! Find a guild.. its what all us old timers used to do long before this non sense was around. ( yes I know I now sound old) But seriously this stuff destroyed not only community but guilds and the primary reason to have them as well. Now before you go yeah but then its all about gear and stuffs! Yes .. some guilds will be.. but I guarantee there will be plenty of friendly guilds out there looking for a good lvling experience to build you up and form those relationships to do more stuff.. like guilds are supposed to do. If you dont like the group aspect (also known as group play / guilds) then you gotta ask yourself why play a MMO?

I for one hope it stays this way so we have real servers again. I still remember certain alliance toons (being a horde player) before LFD because they where ruthless gankers, destroyers of face in BG's, tanks that impressed you and you grouped with often.. these are some of my fav memories of MMO's and I will be very happy to see these experiences return.

[Dalantia]

I think people are forgetting that you can also use companions as stand-ins for players. So, in reality, if one of you is a tank/healer, you may only need 2 people total (you and a pug) to complete a Flashpoint. That's pretty reasonable for LFG channel. And you may make a new friend.

Companions are maybe 60% of a player. You are not completing the average Flashpoint with two companions; Esseles and the Sith equivalent, sure (as they're balanced for such), but not the regular ones.

More on-topic: My experiences with pre-LFD WoW were generally negative, except when I started on a fresh new server; the fact that the groupfinder actually had sufficient warm bodies to draw from to permit forming groups was something that actually allowed me to run dungeons, instead of subsisting on the quest slog.

I expect that they're looking at some form of LFD, especially once the game becomes top-heavy.

[Thatfire]

Make a window to where you still have to form the group because all it does is show the class, lvl, and name of who wants to do the flashpoint on the server. WoW did this during BC and I loved it because I was able to be out in the world PvP'ing or farming or questing while I was still looking for a group to do the instance.

[Triptych]

The trouble with the WoW implementation is that it allows groups to form without anyone needing to communicate. So it's no surpise that the results are often perceived as a social "failure".

Pre-RandomDF, there had to be at least a minimal effort at communication between players. Someone had to write a message in a public channel, detailing what they were looking for or what they wanted to do. And then other players had to respond in some way, again, by typing a greeting and asking for more info or offering your services or whatever. Admittedly, there were always anti-social types whose effort only extended as far as typing "inv pls" and then not saying another thing for the next 45 minutes. But overall, the need to start a conversation with someone was enough of a spark to prompt further chat and discussion, and ultimately, a much more enjoyable grouping experience.

These days, so many players just click the queue button, click to accept their queue, cast their spells for thirty minutes, click on NEED a few times, then finally click to leave the group. Anyone who has spent time using the LFD Finder will have seen this behaviour.

The irony is that Blizzard themselves have a loading screen tip that reads something like : "It's considered polite to talk to someone before sending a group invitation or opening a trade window." And yet their own wretched system is the worst offender at promoting this concept, haha.

Like many other posters in this thread, I truly hope that Bioware consider long and hard before implementing anything at all like a Dungeon Finder Tool.

[Geekzilla]

If you dont like the group aspect (also known as group play / guilds) then you gotta ask yourself why play a MMO?

The mistake you're making is that you're assuming that either I'm not in a guild or I am but chose not to play with them. The truth of the matter is that few people in my guild like running instances as much as I do, so I run out of guildies to run them with. Then there's the whole timezone issue, the last 2-3 hours of time I have to play on most nights, we probably don't have enough people on to put together a group. It's not that unusual for me to fit 4 runs into that time with LFD. Back before LFD, I almost never fit more than one into that time.

I get it, not having LFD works for you. Please understand that it's not that I don't want to do it your way, it's that I have done it your way and it doesn't work as well for me. I'm not asking you to use a tool that you don't like, don't expect me to do it your way just because you like it better.

[Octaboom]

Actually, the wow dungeon finder was something of the smartest things they ever thought of at Blizzard. However, they implemented it completely wrong. First of all, if you're gonna make a LFD tool, you gotta keep it server only, not cross realm. This does destroy community and it does lead to people not getting any rep amongst other players. On my server I joined a random dungeon in TBC as a mage, under geared and everything but still got invited to the third best guild on the realm at the time and given a regular raid spot. It took a lot of effort but it paid off, 6 months after I did that heroic BM, I was mage class leader in that guild and people actually talked about me not only in trade but also on the realm forum.

The second thing that Blizzard has done wrong and that definately destroyed the experience for many is the large number of 4000 player servers. This made it hard to sustain more than 5-10 good guilds on these servers, let alone doing things like pug raids, pug heroics etc. I never understood why Blizz didn't change out more of their hardware and made it possible for servers to have 25000 people on each server. Yes, you could end up being a nobody on servers like that, but at least finding something to do wouldn't be hard.

My wish for star wars; Big servers (15k+), No LFD tool (If there is one implemented, let it be server wide, not cross realm).

Would also like an auction house where u can put in an order of one or more items stating what u want and how much you are willing to pay for it, and when it is posted by a trader that likes your deal, it will automatically be bought by you, offline or online. This would encourage professional crafters to craft alot and would be an end game of it's own.

A tab in your character tab that says what guilds you have been a member of and for how long. This would make it easier for guild leaders to spot guild jumpers and give guild jumpers a clear disadvantage if they like to jump alot.

Some sort of customizable armor, like a family crest on your cape or something like that, that would be personal and only the people in your "family" could wear it.

I have to agree, that the current iteration of WoW's LFD blows, and blows badly. When it initially came out in Wrath it didn't have the nasty, dirty feel that it does now. It was extremely nice for me in Wrath because my server's population was and still is very low, and getting into a dungeon with /2 lfg was either extremely slow, or a no go because of too few people. Even using my guild to build groups was tortuous on some days. But once lfd dropped in WoW in Wrath, getting dungeons done was fun. But at the same time I didn't see an issue of feeling no community in WoW. What I do remember about LFD at that time was that there were so few servers attached to an LFD battlegroup. Now as more servers have less population the battlegroup had to be grown further.

Now if Blizz would grow a collective brain and combine some realms/servers they could probably go back to a smaller battlegroup. Or even implement a same server LFD. Since Blizz won't get rid of LFD, doing a same server one would make the most sense, because you may still have to actually work with or interact with the people that you do a dungeon with.

So, if one is to be done, the least bad option to me is the same server one. I just hope that the LFD does not come to fruition.