Grover Norquist and the Republicans have betrayed the US military!

[Sunseeker]

I believe what he was getting at is looking at the economics. With the way money is going in this country it would be considered 'bad business.'

Yes, because businesses and governments handle money differently.

[Wells]

I believe what he was getting at is looking at the economics. With the way money is going in this country it would be considered 'bad business.'

But that's the point. Economically there is a reason the government is different then business. Government controls the money supply. Government can't go out of business. Government doesn't have to cut spending when the economy goes south. Government doesn't need to operate for a profit.

These are features, not bugs. And they're good things.

[Hughes]

But that's the point. Economically there is a reason the government is different then business. Government controls the money supply. Government can't go out of business. Government doesn't have to cut spending when the economy goes south. Government doesn't need to operate for a profit.

These are features, not bugs. And they're good things.

Perhaps, but what is the government doing with this seemingly endless supply of money? Not so much the entity of government itself, but the people that push the gears to make it work. The kink in the system now is does not allow it to operate properly. You are correct, the government doesn't have to do those things, which is part of the reason why we are staying in this mess.

[logintime]

You are correct, the government doesn't have to do those things, which is part of the reason why we are staying in this mess.

I don't know, I'd argue the main reasons the US is in a mess are that it has a political system designed with numerous chokepoints to stall legislation, and a political party which has taken to extremism to the point where being moderate is now defined as 'being willing to negotiate with the other party'.

[shimerra]

EU tried to oversee multiple nations, and failed totally.

There's other reasons, but predominantly the EU failed because while everyone was gung ho about the economic unity no one wanted to commit to the necessary political unity to make the Euro(the currency this time) work. It did not fail because it tried to oversee multiple nations, it failed because multiple nations failed to give it the power to oversee anything and left it with a government less functional than the U.S. under the articles of confederation.

[Speaknoevil]

Liberals are either spineless, latte sipping pussies or bullying, oppressive tyrants. Pick one and stay consistent

Flexible, latte sipping bullies, with oppressive tyrannical tendencies?

[namelessone]

- No tax cuts!
- No tax cuts? Okay. No spending cuts!
- No spending cuts? Okay. No tax cuts!
- No tax cuts? Okay. No spending cuts!

Repeat ad infinitum: politics in USA. This would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly sad.

[Dacien]

- No tax cuts!
- No tax cuts? Okay. No spending cuts!
- No spending cuts? Okay. No tax cuts!
- No tax cuts? Okay. No spending cuts!

Repeat ad infinitum: politics in USA. This would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly sad.

At some point the spending cuts come anyway. In fact, that's what this story is about.

[Wells]

Democrats accepted spending cuts from the beginning

Republicans made a public pledge to not raise taxes.

I wonder who was being unreasonable.

[Dacien]

Democrats accepted spending cuts from the beginning

Republicans made a public pledge to not raise taxes.

I wonder who was being unreasonable.

The people of this country love low taxes. They are not as keen on government spending. With exceptions, of course.

Except in the wrong area for many republicans.

Meh. Our defense budget could take a hit and still be plenty strong.

[Sunseeker]

The people of this country love low taxes. They are not as keen on government spending. With exceptions, of course.

They do seem quite happy with their social security and roads though, and police...and firefighters...and public education.

[Dacien]

They do seem quite happy with their social security and roads though, and police...and firefighters...and public education.

3 out of 5 there, I think. The other two are the subject of heavy amounts of criticism.

[Wells]

The people of this country love low taxes. They are not as keen on government spending. With exceptions, of course.

Nope.

Polls show longtime support for tax hikes on rich

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...67-503544.html

They are not as keen on government spending.

Gallup: Small minority of Americans is most concerned with deficit, majority say economy or jobs

[Dacien]

Nope.

Polls show longtime support for tax hikes on rich

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...67-503544.html

Well I will concede people sometimes tend to like taxes on people who aren't them, and more importantly, on people perceived as "the bad people". This is why so many taxes on cigarettes and alcohol pass easily.

Gallup: Small minority of Americans is most concerned with deficit, majority say economy or jobs

I'm not arguing that it's their #1 concern. But most people don't root for more government spending, generally.

[Wells]

To further the point, medicare, medicaid, and social security all enjoy broad public support.

A government run public health care option enjoys broad support in most polls.

Hell americans aren't even really sure about their own income tax burden





Pretty much the only people who are really mad about taxes are the ones at the very top.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 01:13 AM ----------

Well I will concede people sometimes tend to like taxes on people who aren't them, and more importantly, on people perceived as "the bad people". This is why so many taxes on cigarettes and alcohol pass easily.

You're assuming too much here. Its just as likely they see the need for more revenue and realize the tax rates at the top are very low and going down faster than everyone else's.

I'm not arguing that it's their #1 concern. But most people don't root for more government spending, generally.

Dude barely even in the double digits in some groups. Americans simply don't give a shit about government spending levels.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 01:14 AM ----------

So in summation we can conclude that this statement is pretty much entirely false.

The people of this country love low taxes. They are not as keen on government spending. With exceptions, of course.

[namelessone]

You know what country had very low tax levels over the past 10 years? Greece. Go ahead, lower taxes, I dare you =)

[Dacien]

So in summation we can conclude that this statement is pretty much entirely false.

So you're showing that people want taxes raised on rich people, but not on poorer people. My previous concession stands on this; people don't like taxes where they themselves are involved.

And you posit that since government spending isn't the people's #1 issue, they don't care about government spending. Of course people aren't going to list government spending as a high priority, what with all the shit going on these days (jobs, economy, etc.). But I'd like to see a survey result of, "Do you feel that government is spending money at an appropriate amount, not spending enough, or spending too much?"

[Wells]

So you're showing that people want taxes raised on rich people, but not on poorer people. My previous concession stands on this; people don't like taxes where they themselves are involved.

You're assuming too much here. I've also shown people don't really mind the taxes they themselves pay.

And you posit that since government spending isn't the people's #1 issue, they don't care about government spending.

Not only do they not care, they really don't care.

[ishootblanks]

For the record, I'm not Republican nor did I write this. It's an article from The Guardian.

I just find it hard to stomach that a lobbyist can have more power and influence than elected officials.
That just isn't right and points to the system being screwed up in a major way.

the issue with the whole article is that it's not true.. the whole purpose of the super committee to begin with was to bypass the remaining 523 members of the house and senate and do their job for them..

basically the super committee was setup for failure from the beginning.. just another thing Obama can campaign on..

pure and simply.. this is what we all knew from the beginning.. Democrats went into it with no intention of not raising taxes and Republicans went in with no intention of raising taxes..

If Obama really wanted to be part of the process.. I mean.. do his job.. he would have been involved in the process and not out in hawaii etc campaigning and trying to push through his latest stimulus

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 05:11 AM ----------

You know what country had very low tax levels over the past 10 years? Greece. Go ahead, lower taxes, I dare you =)

you know what country couldn't afford it's socialist policies? Greece

[ishootblanks]

You're assuming too much here. I've also shown people don't really mind the taxes they themselves pay.



Not only do they not care, they really don't care.

I see wells is out in left field as usual..

people do care about the taxes they pay.. that's you'll notice aside from the multi-billionaires that money is meaningless to.. and the poor to lower middle class who make up the majority of voters.. nobody else is advocating raising taxes..

and yeah spending is a huge issue right now.. in case you didn't catch the part about a 1.2 trillion dollar cut going into effect soon? it's on people's minds because it affects someone they know.. I know for certain military people are pretty upset right now.. since we know Obama is not going to cut Obamacare or any of the various social programs