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  1. #1
    The Patient Iannis's Avatar
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    Disc losing heal/renew/binding heal in MOP?

    Renew is now exclusive to Holy.
    Heal is now exclusive to Holy.
    Binding Heal is now exclusive to Holy.
    Divine Hymn is now exclusive to Holy.

    .... That rather sucks. I love the crap out of all four of those. Wonder how difficult this will make things for disc in MoP

  2. #2
    I wonder how many of these threads we will get?


    Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    We wanted to take a moment to give some context to why the calculators were posted, and the permanence of the data shown. A lot of times we say things like "not final" and "may change" as verbal wiggle room should we decide we need to go a different direction, or are unable to complete something in time. In this case of the Mists of Pandaria calculator data is essentially pre-alpha, and will absolutely change in many ways.

    It was important for us to get this stuff in front of you as soon as possible though (and as a work in progress as it is) to get your feedback, which will in no small part influence that change. We also wanted to present everything on a single page to give you a fuller context for the initial talent changes we announced at BlizzCon, and to see how the overall structure of core abilities, spec abilities, and talents will function, with concrete examples.

    The calculator contains elements that are experimental, still in the process of implementation, or in some cases outright failed experiments that we already intend to revise or replace. Odds are good that if it looks like we’ve forgotten some critical piece of a particular class toolkit, it’s either accounted for elsewhere, or simply a data glitch (e.g., Prayer of Healing is currently absent from the calculator – we are not taking Prayer of Healing away from priests, and Devastate for warriors probably won't sunder armor 453%). Our hope is that revealing the calculator in this state will shed light on the philosophy behind our talent overhaul, and let you get a sense of how pieces of your core rotational gameplay, such as Hot Streak, Riptide, or Sudden Doom, fit into the new system.

    The different classes are also at very different stages of design and implementation, and the fact that some mechanics changes we discussed at BlizzCon and in recent Q&As are not yet present does not mean that we have abandoned those ideas.

    Any and all feedback is very welcome, but please keep all of the above in mind when considering the information in the talent calculator, and please keep feedback consolidated in the Mists of Pandaria forum: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/2592425/
    Last edited by Cephius; 2011-11-23 at 10:12 PM.

  3. #3
    Alpha talents are alpha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  4. #4
    You use renew as Disc?






    Anyway... I haven't decided how I feel about this yet. I guess it would be nice to have a bit of a separation between the two, it would mean disc-specific talents should get a little more love. On the other hand, I will miss being the powerhouse I am now...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklinn View Post
    You use renew as Disc?
    Hey, don't knock Renew. It crits for like 7k.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  6. #6
    I wouldn't actually mind if Renew turned into a Holy only healing spell. It's really rather dysfunctional from a Disc point-of-view anyway. And by removing it from Disc, you can bake in all the Holy-only renew talents into the spell as baseline. From a Holy perspective, this is a good deal, and Disc probably won't care much anyway.

    No Heal as disc can be explained by Disc getting a 2.5sec spammable cheap shielding spell, instead of Heal. Obviously not listed in the calculator, but definitively mentioned during last month's Class Q&A session. I think this adds a nice flavor to Disc, and helps separating the two specs in early MoP content. If you really want to use Heal, there is always atonement. I really doubt they are taking that one away is going to hurt Disc too much.

    The only real weird point is Binding Heal. To be honest, this hurts, especially in PVP. But on the other hand... if they manage to make Disc priests viable without having Binding Heal (and I really assume they will), then having access to most of the disc package, plus Binding Heal, is going to help Holy viability quite a lot. I have also been pondering the possibility of Holypriests simply replacing their Flash Heal button with Binding Heal when they unlock it. The only thing preventing this in Cata is the scaling, and honestly it's not a huge deal to just buff BHeal to FHeal levels. In MoP, it seems like a possible outcome.

    But yeah. This last one is hurting the disc spec. That I will agree on. But it's early pre-alpha. Anything can happen.
    Last edited by Danner; 2011-11-23 at 11:38 PM.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  7. #7
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    Alpha talents are alpha.

    They're not even alpha yet :P
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklinn View Post
    You use renew as Disc?
    On the tanks, sure, as long as your not running oom its a shame not too. Any good disc priest will be abusing Rapture anyway, mana is never usually a problem
    My new YouTube channel dedicated to WoD beta & HotS AlphA!
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  9. #9
    I would love to see a shield version of renew for disc. 4 ticks scaling with haste, after each tick the shield bounces to a friendly target, with each tick adding to DA and refreshing the duration.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    tbh I was more worried about not being able to find Divine Aegis anywhere.... or Atonement...

    if they've removed them I'm deleting my disc priest..
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    And we will be back to square one with PWB 2 min, Hymn 8 min? (and Tranq). Tried to get some asnwers about this on EU forums, but nuh uh...

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 03:23 AM ----------

    I have to add.. Why on earth(!!!) are they releasing these incomplete talent/skills tables?? It only raises questions. Looks like they were made on a 15 min coffee break kind of.. It's made for QQ, whine and worries..

  12. #12
    I would love to see a shield version of renew for disc. 4 ticks scaling with haste, after each tick the shield bounces to a friendly target, with each tick adding to DA and refreshing the duration.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    Hey, don't knock Renew. It crits for like 7k.
    you must have like 15k spellpower!

    I will miss binding heal and heal.. but the castable shield will make up for losing heal I think.. use Gheal as filler..

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 03:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    And we will be back to square one with PWB 2 min, Hymn 8 min? (and Tranq). Tried to get some asnwers about this on EU forums, but nuh uh...

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 03:23 AM ----------

    I have to add.. Why on earth(!!!) are they releasing these incomplete talent/skills tables?? It only raises questions. Looks like they were made on a 15 min coffee break kind of.. It's made for QQ, whine and worries..
    they want community imput now rather than a giant QQ fest at the beginning of the expansion like they got with Cata and WOTLK..
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

  14. #14
    Blizzard outright said: This calculator is buggy. It's not showing spells it should.... some tooltips are incorrect (see: Devastate sunders 432% armor), etc.

    Just relax. It will all be made more clear as we move into Alpha and then Beta. This is AGES before we will even be testing.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franklinn View Post
    You use renew as Disc?
    Not in PvE, that much at least, but in arena Renew is pretty damn important. Over the duration of the HoT, it heals for about as much as one channeled Penance. It's important.

    Nonetheless, It's Alpha, I'm not concerned.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    I have to add.. Why on earth(!!!) are they releasing these incomplete talent/skills tables?? It only raises questions. Looks like they were made on a 15 min coffee break kind of.. It's made for QQ, whine and worries..
    Well, in the live Q&A I ASKED for this and Ghostcrawler actually answered me during the Q&A. I had asked for Talent trees that they would change as they made changes. So that we could get an actual look at the development process of the class and talent design. To quote the Q&A Directly:


    Q: When are we gonna get a crack at the official Talent Calculator for MoP? Even just a work in progress one that perhaps could change as you guys make changes. Would be VERY cool to see how the talents progress form now until release. -Moveth

    A: We are working to get one up soon (TM). We want to include all of the core class and spec spells, because the main concern from players (especially those not at Blizzcon) is what happens to various spec spells. The talent calculator will also help alleviate concerns about leveling up, because you'll be able to see that you get new spells about as often as you do today. Just remember that the individual talents and spells will change a lot before we ship 5.0.
    I wanted to see them in their Pre-Alpha stages so that we could all look at the calculator as it went into Alpha testing, Beta Testing, and even as it changed up to the live release. Its very interesting to see the process they go through while developing this game.

  17. #17
    Grunt Miffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarryterry25 View Post
    I would love to see a shield version of renew for disc. 4 ticks scaling with haste, after each tick the shield bounces to a friendly target, with each tick adding to DA and refreshing the duration.
    this would be amazing i was sad after lvling in disc to find out when i got to 85 that sheilds re useless pretty much just for mana regen i loved the idea of a sheildi8ng class and blizzard are kinda fixing that with the castable shield im excited but i would love to see this or something similar

  18. #18
    The removal of binding heal annoys me. It was a great heal for when you and someone else needed topping off, and you were rewarded for using it by its low cast time and cost, for the given throughput. It is what heals should be, effective and rewarding when used right, weak and inefficient when misused.

    I would often check raid logs for applicants and see the number of PoM bounces and the amount of Binding Heal use to get a rough idea of how well they used the depth of spells available to them.

    They seem to be pushing disc further down the "Shield don't heal" line to give it some differentiation from Holy, but they already play very differently in terms of throughput, mana usage and clutch saving power vs AoE volume. I guess you just have to accept it is pre-alpha and talking about things too much is pointless at this stage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by callidas View Post
    The removal of binding heal annoys me. It was a great heal for when you and someone else needed topping off, and you were rewarded for using it by its low cast time and cost, for the given throughput. It is what heals should be, effective and rewarding when used right, weak and inefficient when misused.

    I would often check raid logs for applicants and see the number of PoM bounces and the amount of Binding Heal use to get a rough idea of how well they used the depth of spells available to them.

    They seem to be pushing disc further down the "Shield don't heal" line to give it some differentiation from Holy, but they already play very differently in terms of throughput, mana usage and clutch saving power vs AoE volume. I guess you just have to accept it is pre-alpha and talking about things too much is pointless at this stage.
    I doubt they'll take Binding Heal from us. I use the shit out of that spell. I wish they wouldn't post all these updates so soon.

  20. #20
    i really like the amount of spells i have to pick from atm as a discipline priest, dunno why they go in direction of limiting spells available for the specs and minimizing the shared toolbox :/ and binding heal, noes

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