Swtor vs Wow (Classes)

[Ashnazg]

Isn't that the point that makes this irrelevant?

I haven't played WoW since 4.2 I think, but iirc (could be off but eh) rogues could not easily burn a target in full resil gear down either.

I agree with you that TTK (time to kill) is higher in SWTOR, but when the game's been out for a few months and people get geared up, its not like a random PvEr joining a battleground is going to stand any more of a chance against a pvp-geared sin / operative in SWTOR than they did in WoW.

I'm just saying its misleading to make statements like: "There is no "melee glass cannon killz stunned target in 6 secondz" mechanic in SWTOR." since there is more CC flying around in SWTOR battlegrounds than cakes at a fat boy's birthday and there are classes whose sole aim is to produce insane burst on command.

Considering that, you know, most classes have a simple way to knock you back, jump away, stun/snare you, heal up, etc, but most of those mechanics are not available at LEVEL 10!!! WHY ARE YOU STILL TRYING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR THIS?

6-8 second kills were possible (even common) in WoW because of the prevalence of stuns (target not able to react)

Its not like at least 50% of the classes in-game have a 4s long stun on a 45s-1m cooldown, with other instant/non-instant CC options available...oh wait. SWTOR has more stuns and CC options than WoW had ever dreamed of, but I digress. Sins get a 3s (5s with pvp gear) immunity to all force/tech abilities, and operatives can get you down to 20% before you're out of their stun. Then they have a dot ticking on you and range abilities to finish you off.

What he said. Your statement was 100% driven from beta weekend footage (Level 26+ ops with all critical abilities / talents wrecking scrubs that barely graduated from starter planets), and is simply not grounded in reality

If beta..well actually release build is not reality, I don't know what is.

[zealous]

I haven't played WoW since 4.2 I think, but iirc (could be off but eh) rogues could not easily burn a target in full resil gear down either.

I agree with you that TTK (time to kill) is higher in SWTOR, but when the game's been out for a few months and people get geared up, its not like a random PvEr joining a battleground is going to stand any more of a chance against a pvp-geared sin / operative in SWTOR than they did in WoW.

I'm just saying its misleading to make statements like: "There is no "melee glass cannon killz stunned target in 6 secondz" mechanic in SWTOR." since there is more CC flying around in SWTOR battlegrounds than cakes at a fat boy's birthday and there are classes whose sole aim is to produce insane burst on command.

PvP gear will provide around a 10% advantage according to the devs. In WoW, serious PvP w/o full resil gear was impossible. Even casual PvP w/o full resil gear was very painful.

The devs say they have taken steps to assure that PvE geared people won't be punished as heavily as in other games. I'm willing to give BW the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

The only AC that fits your description of burst on demand in my eyes is the Sniper/Gungslinger. And that is counterbalanced by their dependance on cover and weakness to a smart melee ambushing them and kicking their ass out of there.

[shaithis]

I haven't played WoW since 4.2 I think, but iirc (could be off but eh) rogues could not easily burn a target in full resil gear down either.

I agree with you that TTK (time to kill) is higher in SWTOR, but when the game's been out for a few months and people get geared up, its not like a random PvEr joining a battleground is going to stand any more of a chance against a pvp-geared sin / operative in SWTOR than they did in WoW.

I'm just saying its misleading to make statements like: "There is no "melee glass cannon killz stunned target in 6 secondz" mechanic in SWTOR." since there is more CC flying around in SWTOR battlegrounds than cakes at a fat boy's birthday and there are classes whose sole aim is to produce insane burst on command.



Its not like at least 50% of the classes in-game have a 4s long stun on a 45s-1m cooldown, with other instant/non-instant CC options available...oh wait. SWTOR has more stuns and CC options than WoW had ever dreamed of, but I digress. Sins get a 3s (5s with pvp gear) immunity to all force/tech abilities, and operatives can get you down to 20% before you're out of their stun. Then they have a dot ticking on you and range abilities to finish you off.



If beta..well actually release build is not reality, I don't know what is.

Er, reality = similarly leveled people grouped together, people who have been at max level for a year excluded. Of which there was quite a bit in beta; you can bet that these guys had a load of fun with the fresh beta weekend meat.

Sure, TOR has stuns. Given to everyone, not just a few classes / specs. Furthermore, there's a little something called "resolve bar;" I gather that you may have some familiarity with that as you say that you have played to 50...

[Ashnazg]

Er, reality = similarly leveled people grouped together, people who have been at max level for a year excluded. Of which there was quite a bit in beta; you can bet that these guys had a load of fun with the fresh beta weekend meat.

Right, at start everyone will be more or less equal, but a few months down the road, it'll be exactly the same as rift / wow / warhammer, etc, where geared people will gib fresh meat in seconds. All I am saying is that there's no point pretending that that won't be the case in SWTOR, since all the mechanics necessary for such gameplay are present.

Resolve bar

The way it currently works is you get full length CC's until you max it out. If you are getting CC'ed by one person, that resolve bar won't kick in when you want it to. Your only solution is your CC break ability, which may or may not be up, depending on the intensity of the combat.

The only AC that fits your description of burst on demand in my eyes is the Sniper/Gungslinger. And that is counterbalanced by their dependance on cover and weakness to a melee ambushing and kicking their ass out of there.

If you insist. I disagree partially because high surge value on sins + guaranteed 2 crits via recklessness produce a solid 5-6k burst, and with decent gear + talents, you're looking at ~50% crit chance on your maul and execute too. Operatives are in a similar boat, with more than 50% crit chance on backstab, and obscene damage on most of their melee attacks. But I guess strictly speaking, the latter is not "on demand" since it does require you to roll a die to get a crit strike.

[Kwickslash]

Why are people constantly trying to compare things to WoW? It's seriously getting old.

Why are people constantly getting surprised of WoW comparison threads in a WoW news website forum?

[zealous]

snip

While I may agree with your statement that things might become different once more people are geared, I disagree about the "same as WoW" part.

I take it you haven't done low level PvP in WoW for a while either.

All level brackets in WoW are a burst instagib fest. Top level or not. At the top level - PvP gear is miles ahead in effectiveness from PvE gear.

In TOR, low level burst is much lower, which I hope is an indicator of how things are at max level. Even if it's not to the same degree. PvP gear is supposedly only 10% "better" than the same level PvE gear.

Also, as I keep pointing out - the gear disparity situation is a pointless one to discuss. Ofc extreme burst is possible in extremely skewed situations. If anything, TOR is better in that regard if the devs' statements on the advantages of PvP gear is true.

I'm not trying to start an "omfg TOR is awesome" argument, but to deny that the burst levels are lower in this game than in most others is silly.

As to "fresh meat" - I participated in a Void Star match where by chance most of the players were above level 35, ranging all the way up to 48. I was level 28, in tanking spec.

At the end of the match, I had died not more than anyone else, and certainly didn't feel like I had no chance at influencing things. With the occasional help of healers, I ended up absorbing huge amounts of damage (2nd place after a 38 lvl Trooper) and could actually have an impact on the match by controlling enemies through stuff like Freezing Force.

By no means did I feel useless, even though most of my opponents most assuredly had to have superior gear and more spells.

Even if things end up escalating, it still won't be as bad as WoW judging by the way burst scales through levels.