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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Toho's Avatar
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    why Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

    this is a purely historical discussion and no US bashing thread.

    the question is why did US bomb these two cities and not somewhere else? the Japanese still had about 2 million infantry on the mainland so instead of nuking 2 cities why didn't the US nuke army bases or important military ports?

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Nagasaki was bombed just because it had the best weather of any of the possible target cities that day.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...ice_of_targets

    There you go.
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  3. #3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

    This video should answer your question.

    Thanks to JustintimeSS for the awesome sig!

  4. #4
    Maybe the wanted to send a message that they weren't afraid to harm innocent civilians(plus they were pissed about Pearl Harbor). /shrug
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    No, Worgie is right. If a group is larger than 10 it will automatically divide itself into hunters and gatherers and instinctively build a life around the general vicinity. Soon enough you'll have camp fires, pelts, and a hungry god demanding tribute by blood.

    It's basic human nature, Arlee. Trust me, I'm a marine biologist.

  5. #5
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...ice_of_targets

    Basically, they were big cities that weren't important enough to be attacked by ground troops, and so a better chance the bomb wasn't lost.

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  6. #6
    Grunt
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    Mostly it was to make the population fearful of being killed. They were targeted to get the population's support for the war to stop.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Maharishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...ice_of_targets

    Basically, they were big cities that weren't important enough to be attacked by ground troops, and so a better chance the bomb wasn't lost.
    Perhaps more importantly from your link

    "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released"

    The whole point of the bomb was to scare a surrender out of japan, which was better achieved by civilian targets (which also had some military significance).

    The morality of that decision does not sit well with me, but the reasoning for it is clear.

  8. #8
    Hiroshima during World War II

    At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of some industrial and military significance. A number of military camps were located nearby, including the headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan.

    Nagasaki during World War II

    The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maharishi View Post
    The whole point of the bomb was to scare a surrender out of japan, which was better achieved by civilian targets (which also had some military significance).

    The morality of that decision does not sit well with me, but the reasoning for it is clear.
    Mmhm...I suppose we have to look at it in light of the time the decision was made in, but even so, I am also morally disturbed by the decision. Let us hope that no such decision will be made again.
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  10. #10
    Mechagnome ThunderBlunder's Avatar
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    big city + weapon arsenal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    *punches ThunderBlunder in the face*

  11. #11
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maharishi View Post
    Perhaps more importantly from your link

    "It was agreed that psychological factors in the target selection were of great importance. Two aspects of this are (1) obtaining the greatest psychological effect against Japan and (2) making the initial use sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it is released"

    The whole point of the bomb was to scare a surrender out of japan, which was better achieved by civilian targets (which also had some military significance).

    The morality of that decision does not sit well with me, but the reasoning for it is clear.
    Also the humor in that the Secretary of War chose against Kyoto because he loved it so much during his honeymoon.

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  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    *laughing at the idea of military morality*

    The only reason any military force exists is fear and distrust.

  13. #13
    Both were military targets.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Maharishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    *laughing at the idea of military morality*

    The only reason any military force exists is fear and distrust.
    I'm not sure why the fact that we have to have a military due to distrust of other nations means that we can't be upset when they commit immoral acts?

  15. #15
    I don't agree with the bombing in general even if it was party necessary, but that's another topic. I think those two towns were picked for reasons stated above, they had military capabilities that would make good targets even if the Japanese didn't surrender, and in the process, killing many civilians which would make a big impact.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Both were military targets.
    Meaningless considering how much collateral damage was done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maharishi View Post
    I'm not sure why the fact that we have to have a military due to distrust of other nations means that we can't be upset when they commit immoral acts?
    I'm not saying the distrust is unfounded.

    The sad part of it is that old feuds last, and peace can't be found if old hate is held on to.

    Cycles of revenge in it's basest sense has gripped Israel under the guise of territorial conflict generation to generation.

    If all of humanity could let go of their hate and work to better the world, instead of trying to force their way of life on their surroundings, we could get much further in our given lifetimes.

    *sigh*

    Idyllic daydreaming, the inherent fear of what's different is far too gripping for most.
    Last edited by Speaknoevil; 2011-11-27 at 11:11 PM.

  17. #17
    Grunt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    Mmhm...I suppose we have to look at it in light of the time the decision was made in, but even so, I am also morally disturbed by the decision. Let us hope that no such decision will be made again.
    At that point in time, a large majority of the American people supported the total annihilation of the Japanese, to the extent of genocide.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Laconicraven View Post
    I don't agree with the bombing in general even if it was party necessary, but that's another topic. I think those two towns were picked for reasons stated above, they had military capabilities that would make good targets even if the Japanese didn't surrender, and in the process, killing many civilians which would make a big impact.
    So you don't believe in a bomb that maybe killed few thousand and destroyed cities but it would be totally ok to send in over 1million usa troops onto mainland japan where civilians were told to fight risk 250,000 lives and god knows how many japanese lives but nope that bomb was totally not nessecary.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Maharishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baene View Post
    So you don't believe in a bomb that maybe killed few thousand and destroyed cities but it would be totally ok to send in over 1million usa troops onto mainland japan where civilians were told to fight risk 250,000 lives and god knows how many japanese lives but nope that bomb was totally not nessecary.
    I certainly think they should have hit hard military targets rather than cities at first. While no one claiming that war crimes were committed, the intentional targeting of civilian targets is not something i can endorse.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Linaver's Avatar
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    Soldiers fighting soldiers is not the same as civillians getting vaporised in a mushroom cloud with no warning or true purpose.
    Both were large cities with some military importance. Neither was irreplacable to the military. There were picked because the casualties would be devastating so they would stand a chance of scaring Japan into surrender.

    USA are assholes for dropping the bomb. They had their reasoning and rationalle that allowed them to carry through with it. It was a gray decision where thousands of families were killed. Nobody in the states thought about that, the whole population cheered it as another military victory. Oh well, history is written by the victors.

    <Infracted> Please don't refer to any nation as "assholes"
    Last edited by Dacien; 2011-11-28 at 04:09 PM.

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