4.3 Holy spec questions

[Bassnectar]

So with the nerf to Protector of the Innocence, which know no longer goes through beacon is it worth it to put 3 points in that? Or should I drop one out and get 10 more yards on judge? Or put it some where else?

[Tatsu]

I'll probably end up running something like this spec. Though you have some leeway on where you put all the points. You could drop 1/2 out of BL and go into TOR if you want, or you can drop something out of judgement range.

[Deleted]

More or less like Tatsu...
....the thing is: I don't think we need the 40yrd for the new Judgement mechanic.
With only a judgement needed every minute, we can move to judge anytime we need.
But, where I can get something useful to expend the points I would save from that? There's nowhere to spend those points and get something really useful.
So we're out of options. Everyone will use the same spec unless It's for PVP.

[Tatsu]

More or less like Tatsu...
....the thing is: I don't think we need the 40yrd for the new Judgement mechanic.
With only a judgement needed every minute, we can move to judge anytime we need.
But, where I can get something useful to expend the points I would save from that? There's nowhere to spend those points and get something really useful.
So we're out of options. Everyone will use the same spec unless It's for PVP.

Playing around with it, thats what I figured out. I don't need the longer range, but not much else to put them in

[Ajwon]

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#scIbzrkuudkhZcbM for 25man

[Electrum]

I don't know why you would put 2 points in Improved Judgement and -only- two in Tower of Radiance. We are only going to need to use judgement every minute (unless I am mistaken), and moving in range of the boss is incredibly easy to do sometime in that period. Plus, if you have done dragonsoul, I can't think of a boss I will really need the additional range for.

I am going to drop one point in it (to 2) and pick up my second point in Last word. Nothing else is especially appealing, I might steal quite a few points away and go for pursuit of justice or guardian's favor. I doubt it though, I like Eternal Glory and Divinity too much.

My current spec:

wowtal.com/#k=teXqxcPd.b0w.paladin.

[Tatsu]

I don't know why you would put 2 points in Improved Judgement and -only- two in Tower of Radiance. We are only going to need to use judgement every minute (unless I am mistaken), and moving in range of the boss is incredibly easy to do sometime in that period. Plus, if you have done dragonsoul, I can't think of a boss I will really need the additional range for.

I am going to drop one point in it (to 2) and pick up my second point in Last word. Nothing else is especially appealing, I might steal quite a few points away and go for pursuit of justice or guardian's favor. I doubt it though, I like Eternal Glory and Divinity too much.

My current spec:

wowtal.com/#k=teXqxcPd.b0w.paladin.

There is a strong case about making holy pallies raid healers now. With that idea then you only need 1 point in TOR for the HP from HR. A lot less damage on tanks so you can switch things around.

[Electrum]

Fair enough, but the patch didn't lessen our tank healing capabilities. I raid 10M, so I can see the difference in 25M, but I don't see why you wouldn't want to be equipped for both - especially when the talent is being used in a significantly less useful spot.

[Howard Moon]

IMHO the following talents have lost their value in 4.3: Enlightened Judgements and Improved Judgements

And on the other hand, Tower of Radiance is mandatory now due to the extra HoPo from HR.

I propose a (35/5/3) spec.

[reikoshea]

Why would ToR be mandatory now? I always felt it was mandatory before even after I stopped relying on it. It's nice to have for burn phases. Now that Holy Radiance grants hopo i see ToR as a means to Light of Dawn (one that I might drop all together and just PoTI to hit the end of the tree).

http://wowtal.com/#k=kCNPyWKL.b0w.paladin.q6H3FQ

There's really not any points I'd rather spend elsewhere. ToR might get some if i find myself tank healing, but the change the Holy Radiance really changes the feel and the niche of holy paladins. If we dont have a prot pally (unlikely) I might be talked into using my judgement range for Judgement of the just and picking up eternal glory. That's really the only other option I see in here.

[Howard Moon]

On the PTR, LoD was my second most healing spell after HR. I was able to pump out LoD's with amazing frequency thanks to ToR. I am definitely keeping that talent. And since I am in 10man atm, and can't think of anywhere else to put the points, I will go with 3/3 ToR.

Only reason not to get ToR is to be able to get PoJ, but IMHO it's not worth it.

[Cursingmonk]

Drop Judgement range completely as there are no fights that require the range on judge. If you cannot manage to find yourself in judge range of a boss once per minute you may want to rethink how you do the encounter. On that note, in many fights paladin healers are assigned to stack with the melee group. As a previous poster said, PoTI is weaker now but at worst I would move one point to last word (making it 2/2). I am currently running Blessed life 2/2 as well. Pursuit of justice does not look beneficial so far since we have a 30 second speed boost for when we really need to get up and go.

There is a strong case about making holy pallies raid healers now. With that idea then you only need 1 point in TOR for the HP from HR. A lot less damage on tanks so you can switch things around.

I do not think the case is as strong as you think. We are still able to efficiently single target heal very well. Most of the PTR fights have a lot of AOE burst phases but the tanks still are getting hit. In HM PTR the tanks are taking some significant damage and paladins are still very useful to fill that role. For the cost of 2 talent points (up to 6 if you include other WoG buffing abilities) I would stick with versatility. Besides the alternatives are slim anyway with PoJ being the only viable PvE choice.

TLDR: Snipe at most one point from POTI for 2/2 Blessed life and Last word. Improved judgement range will be much less valuable this tier.

[Tiberria]

ToR 1/3 is mandatory for the HP every time you use Holy Radiance. The other 2 points are optional. You probably want to go either 1/3 or 3/3. If assigned to tank healing at all, you want 3/3, if you are primarily raid healing in a 25 man, 1/3 is a potential option.

I don't buy the argument that you don't need judgement range talents because you just need to judge once a minute. You are going to want your range to be long enough that you can judge from where you typically are positioned on a boss fight. Having to run into melee range every minute is an output loss and possibly a throughput loss too (if you have to let the buff be off for a few seconds because it isn't safe to run in). When the option for those extra points is Blessed Life or something, I contend that having to move around for judging will be a greater output loss. You need at least 1/2 Enlightened Judgements for the judgement hit cap. You are probably also going to want either 1/2 or 2/2 Improved Judgements for most fights (Ultraxion is the potential exception).

WoG talents also have lost value this patch. The main reason is because we are going to be raid healing more, and the raid is going to be more stacked. That means you will be using LoD over WoG a lot more than you do in 4.2, even in 10 mans. That reduces the value of taking the 2nd point in Last Word and 2 points in Eternal Glory. Putting both points in Blessed Life or potentially taking Pursuit of Justice are both options in place of Eternal Glory potentially.

I would not go down to 2/3 PoTI. Almost every DS fight has massive amounts of unavoidable raid damage, and PoTI with 3/3 was doing 4-6% of my output on the PTR. Even without the beacon transfer, the extra self healing will still be valuable to save yourself and other healers mana and GCDs. On top of that, the extra self healing makes it more likely that smart heals like CoH and WG will redirect to another target, helping the entire healing team. I don't see there being anywhere else more useful to put that talent point.

[jyn]

IMHO the following talents have lost their value in 4.3: Enlightened Judgements and Improved Judgements

And on the other hand, Tower of Radiance is mandatory now due to the extra HoPo from HR.

I propose a (35/5/3) spec.

I hope you enjoy missing your Judgements.

[xStrike]

I hope you enjoy missing your Judgements.

Isn't hit not even needed? Do we not acquire the regen buff upon attempt, not a successful hit?


I thought I read something about it changing toward that, or was the only something for prot. Something changed like that - I know it.

[Kakera]

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#scIozrkuufdhbZc:maVMfs

I'll probably use this as my base talent spec for 25 man raiding. I'm not completely sold on needing Enlightened Judgements now, however there really aren't any other things to pick up. Last Word loses value with Light of Dawn change, and a more stacked up raid environment this tier, I believe that Light of Dawn usage will be far more frequent. Having done all 8 encounters on the PTR and several hard modes, I do not believe you need the extra point in Imp Judgement. There are far too many opportunities for you to re-apply your Judgement Haste buff, and you are absolutely in range of at least an add on most encounters in Dragon Soul. Going deeper into Ret to pick up Pursuit of Justice is also wasteful, considering there are very few things that actually stun you.

[Tiberria]

I am pretty sure that the hit is still needed to avoid having an 8% chance for every judgement to miss.

I don't think Pursuit of Justice is worth it. The T13 fights really do not have anything close to the mobility requirements of many of the FL fights when we were fine without it.

http://wowtal.com/#k=tfAiOBlh.b0w.paladin.

Something like that seems to make sense. Options include moving points from Blessed Life to Eternal Glory on a fight by fight basis or maybe moving the point out of Sacred Cleansing to Last Word on fights that do not require dispels.

[Deleted]

4.3 HPally

I myself will use this and probably spent 3/3 in ToR and 2/2 in Blessed Life.
Reason?
You never really need the range for your Judgement.
Within one min you will pass an add/boss no doubt.
And if you have a problem judging while walking, how did you survive 8 sec judge?
In FL I was running 1/2 in Improved Judgement anyways, so I was kinda used to it.

[reikoshea]

Yeah this is probably me just being nostalgic needing the improved judgement. i can probably get by without it, i just know i feel gimped in holy and prot every time i level a pally (yes...have more than one.....le sigh).

I'm just interested maybe doing something besides healing a tank as a paladin. If things do work out they way they're seeming too (i've only seen the vids on these fights haven't done em myself) then I'll probably run something like this:

http://wowtal.com/#k=kmRZAfik.b0w.paladin.

2 point last word has saved my tank more times than I can count. It's a really nice get out of jail free card. Since with 2 points it's almost a guaranteed crit. Pretty stoked for tomorrow's raid. Might switch sacred cleansing for some judgement range if i dont have to dispel. I figure priests will be the choice on the bouncing ball boss (too lazy to check his name).

[GoldFish]

I usually run with 30 yds for judgement, thinking of spec might go to 25 yds, will that be easy enough with DS, not been on the ptr.
At the moment swaying with http://wowtal.com/#k=kmQRX_Ph.b0w.paladin.
Edit: What is the need of blessed life in DS?