4.3 Holy spec questions

[Cursingmonk]

Edit: What is the need of blessed life in DS?

Same as the need in FL.

There are a lot of unavoidable raid damage mechanics in DS. I will verify that at least 5/8 produce HP but without logs I have not dug into how much HP generation there actually will be.

Believe me when I say that you will not need more than 10 yards of judgement in DS. The holy paladin is either stacked with melee or within distance of an add at least once every minute. There will be many more applications for your talent points. I would also suggest keeping 3/3 in ToR because it outweighs PoJ, even with the idea that moving faster means more throughput. The versatility and HP generation from healing beacon will eclipse the few extra heals that you may rattle off by moving to your target destination 15% faster. Hell, if you are that concerned with movment speed avoid spending 2 useless talent points in judgement and 2 questionable talent points in PoJ and take lavawalker (-50 haste +35 mastery -7% run speed +4 talent points). Just be sure you are above your second haste plateau.

Edit: I want to reiterate that HM DS Bosses do not tickle the tanks, they will require some serious heals.

[reikoshea]

For my specs it's mostly a means to an end. It's almost a requirement to have 1 point in Tower, and then blessed life will give you a HP every 8 seconds. Due to the amount of non-dot heavy AoE this tier the talent becomes a lot better than it has been previously (I used it for Maloriak, Atramedes, and Chim in T11, and it's been in my list for H Rags attempts, Rhyo and Beth, until we started roflstomping the last two).

This teir MOST bosses have some kind of ticking AoE that isn't DOT based, so the skill becomes a lot more useful. I know there is some debate between using 1 point or 2 for it as well since you are taking damage more often, 50% isnt a bad proc rate.

So with the change to HR, on heavy healing phases you might looks something like this:

HS->HR->BlesLife->LoD, and then Repeat with HR->HS->HR->LoD.

Might take a little testing but it should be pretty easy to figure out a good rotation on a per fight basis.

[reikoshea]

I know for me it is worth it. I like the 3% haste, but with the itemization this tier it may not be as useful (all our gear seems to be haste/spirit with only a few exceptions). It's good for oh crap moments too, like say you dont realize your missing a shard soaker on the first boss of DS. You are probably one of the easiest people to get in position for that shard. For FL it was definitely a required talent for me. I haven't seen the new raids yet, but i'd imagine it'll have it's uses again. Especially if we're avoiding pursuit of justice due to the flow of the fights this tier.

[Nillo]

Random questions:
1. Is it me or are all those trees still with the old wording? Just curious if I'm the only one :P
2. Is 'speed of light' really worth it? 3 points for a short-runspeedboost and only 3% haste?

Yeah it's really odd- this patch has destroyed pretty much half of our talent choices.
- PotI nerfed hard thanks to no longer working with beacon.
- Enlightened Judgements even worse than before thanks to only using it about 25% as much as before.
- Speed of Light now a meh talent unless you absolutely need the movement speed
- Sacred Cleansing still a stupid talent
*sigh*

[Tatsu]

Yeah it's really odd- this patch has destroyed pretty much half of our talent choices.
- PotI nerfed hard thanks to no longer working with beacon.
- Enlightened Judgements even worse than before thanks to only using it about 25% as much as before.
- Speed of Light now a meh talent unless you absolutely need the movement speed
- Sacred Cleansing still a stupid talent
*sigh*

They are getting us ready for MoP when we get really boring talents.

First 4 bosses BL procc'ed 23 times for me.

[Electrum]

-PotI isn't as great, but with the amount of AoE damage in DS, it is still better than most options.
-Enlightened Judgements does suck you will be using judgement nearly 15% as often.
-You are delusional if you think 3% haste is not worth the talent points.
-Sacred Cleansing is needed in most of the 5 mans and several DS bosses. Sure other heals can grab it but does that mean we shouldn't have the talent available?

[Deleted]

I'm currently thinking of speccing like this: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sMIbzrkuufdhbZc

Kinda doubing between going 3/3 ToR, or 3/3 PotI. A ~1k heal on yourself every time you heal another vs the reliability of getting one HP when healing the beacon target (although that's still gonna happen most of the time anyway, with a 66% chance). 2/2 BL is also debateable, though at 2/2 it can be relied on for a guaranteed HP when a nasty AoE hits you will need to heal through.

One point in EJ still seems more or less needed, at least in 4.2 when you missed a Judgement you wouldn't get the buff. Anyone can confirm if this is still the case? At least I didn't see any changes in that regard.

Oh, and don't forget to replace your LoD glyph.

[Nillo]

-You are delusional if you think 3% haste is not worth the talent points.

1% haste per talent point is really really low. You don't see priests going 3 points in shadow either unless they need it to get another hot tick.

[Nekovivie]

1% haste per talent point is really really low. You don't see priests going 3 points in shadow either unless they need it to get another hot tick.

There is nothing better though. Holy Paladin tree is so... impossible.

[Nillo]

There is nothing better though. Holy Paladin tree is so... impossible.

And that's what's so sad about it - this patch just screams "half-arsed" they bandaid fixed talents here and there and didn't think about the consequences now we're left with lots of broken mechanics and talents that were fine before the patch -.-

[Tiberria]

The sprint is still valuable in certain situations, and is one of those things that does not have a quantifiable value, but can and will save your ass multiple times, especially on hard mode progression, even if there isn't that much movement required in DS. You could make the same argument for holy priests not bothering with Body and Soul, since it should not be needed, but almost everyone takes that talent point.

As far as the 3% haste for 3 talent points, it's a little costly. However, the priest Darkness talent isn't exactly the same thing. You're comparing an out of talent spec talent (where points are at a premium and generally involve not being able to take other options - like Shadowfiend CD reduction, Archangel for holy, Inspiration for Disc to take) to a main spec talent tree talent. There also really isn't anything else to take. Really, more points in Blessed Life, Pursuit of Justice, judgement range talents, etc are the only other options, and none of these beat a static 3% haste.

[Penicilin]

Hello,

what would be talent spec for 10man raiding now after 4.3, I wont get to the game for 2 more days due to work. And Are there some glyphs to be changed as well?

thanks

[Tiberria]

After playing through a regular clear tonight, here are some thoughts on talent choices.

-Blessed Life - 129 procs in a 5 hour raid while specced 1/2. I am not sure how much more taking 2/2 Blessed Life would give, but 1/2 definitely seems worth it given the amount of unavoidable things that proc it in DS.
-Tower of Radiance - only 48 HP gained from DL on the beacon. After you have 1/3 for the HR HP gain, the other 2 points seem to be 100% optional and pretty weak for 25 man raiding. I just don't know if there's anywhere better to put those talent points, given that keeping them gives you the option to switch into full blown tank spamming mode on the fly.
-Judgement range - 25 yards (1/2 Enlightened Judgements, 1/2 Improved Judgements) feels perfectly fine. The only fights where it becomes an issue on are Hagara (if you aren't used to the phase change timing and don't get it refreshed in time and Warlord Zon'ozz - if you're in the ranged clump group, you need to run in further to get the buff up - at least for the initial pull.
-WoG talents - WoG was only 1.2% of my healing (compared to 12% for Light of Dawn). The fight mechanics make it so that LoD is almost always the better choice. That makes it pretty questionable if the WoG glyph is worth using instead of just using both the HS and DF glyphs. It also makes both Last Word and Eternal Glory very weak talents. I would advise dropping the 2nd point in Last Word. Eternal Glory is pretty weak too, but the only place that you can really put points that you drop from there are in Pursuit of Justice, which just isn't needed at all this tier.

[Deleted]

Hello,

what would be talent spec for 10man raiding now after 4.3, I wont get to the game for 2 more days due to work. And Are there some glyphs to be changed as well?

thanks

I used this one for 8/8 in 10man.
Again in DS you NEVER (maybe gunship) need the extra yards on your judgement.
Hpally 4.3 - 10man

The glyphes are about your playstyle. It really just depends on yourself.
Just make sure to change your powerauras (or whatever you use to track judge) to set it to 1min

[Deleted]

I've just looked through this thread and i'm missing some opinions on the LoD glyph changes, i'm thinking about using it for 10 mans but haven't done and ptr testing about DS or seen any vids so could this be something people would try out or is it completely dumb to do so?

[Deleted]

I've just looked through this thread and i'm missing some opinions on the LoD glyph changes, i'm thinking about using it for 10 mans but haven't done and ptr testing about DS or seen any vids so could this be something people would try out or is it completely dumb to do so?

I think 90% of the people use it unglyphed now. For 25m it's obvious, though for 10m the glyph -could- be useful situationally. As long as the whole raid is taking damage though, and you can hit at least 5 people with it, you'll do more healing without the glyph.

It might be good when there's ~3 people that all need a decent amount of healing, but that doens't seem to occur a lot. Plus there's also WoG when someone really needs to be saved.

[Deleted]

I've just looked through this thread and i'm missing some opinions on the LoD glyph changes, i'm thinking about using it for 10 mans but haven't done and ptr testing about DS or seen any vids so could this be something people would try out or is it completely dumb to do so?

Personally I changed to it instantly yesterday. There aren't that many situations where the whole raid is stacked up and I feel that I'm much more likely to hit 4 targets than 5. Also, reforging full mastery I feel that getting more healing out of each LoD tick gives a comparably nice boost for my mastery shields. Further arguing for it, even when the whole raid is stacked up it's really not very often there are more than 4 people who need healing at the same time, and since LoD is a smartheal those 4 people will get the heals.

Arguing against would obviously be that you have to replace Glyph of Divinity for the LoD glyph, but mana didn't seem to be a huge problem in normal modes yesterday. May have to replace it for heroics though.

[Valamivan]

You need either PotI or LW to enter tier 3, and my vote is for PotI. Though it no longer transfers throught beacon, damage is pouring down on you, so most of the time it won't be wasted. While on the other hand I almost exclusively spend hopo on LoD and very rarely on WoG, so that decreases the value of any WoG-related talents/glyphs.
I never ever like ToR, since in 25man we usually cross-beacon to get the most out of it. In 4.2 I only took ToR to have on-demand hopo generation for AoE damage phases (ToR > HS > ToR > LoD), but since HR now fills that role more than adequately I no longer take ToR. 1 point goes in there to give your HR the hopo generation, the other 2 I put into Blessed Life, again due to the AoE damage pouring down on us and proccing BL quite often.
Divinity, Crusade and IJ I took, that left me 2 points for flavor, I dropped it into PoJ (not EG since I don't use WoG often), but you can fortify LW or EG with it, if you feel your running speed is more than enough for the movement that's needed.

[Tiberria]

Well, you need to take 4 points between PoTI and LW to get further down the tree. I also think 3/3 PoTI and 1/2 LW is the obvious choice. WoG is not being used nearly enough with the fight mechanics to warrant taking a 2nd point in LW. All fights have massive amounts of unavoidable raid damage, making PoTI worth about 1% extra output per talent point.

[Silent Earth]

Isn't hit not even needed? Do we not acquire the regen buff upon attempt, not a successful hit?


I thought I read something about it changing toward that, or was the only something for prot. Something changed like that - I know it.

I think before, missing a judgement still granted the regen from Insight. Now, however, I can confirm that missing will NOT activate your Judgements of the Pure, neither the haste component nor the 30% spirit increase. Whether or not this is intended... *shrug*