So it's like that

[roahn the warlock]

LOL, you sound mighty defensive. Maybe you missed the part where it doesn't bother me. Actually, you probably need to go back and read it again. Doesn't look like you understood a single word of my post.

For starters, I never said anything about heroic modes or quote-unquote hardcore raiders. You're right that this doesn't effect them, the issue has nothing to do with them in the first place. That's completely tertiary to what we're (I'm) talking about. So it's odd that you chose to quote me and then addressed issues I never brought up. Did you mean to do that?

LFR content is raiding, because that's what it is. Whether I "care" or not doesn't matter. See, it's even in the name: Looking For Raid. It remains optional, like any other aspect of the game, but that isn't the point. That's not even in the same area code as the point. The point is: you're still killing what was sold to us as the "final boss" of the expansion, in a raid instance, with a group of completely random strangers some of whom, in all likelihood, lack the mental capacity to be successful in a normal raid. You are doing what was once impossible, and you're doing it while it's "current content".

Don't trip up on my wording there. I'm not bagging on casuals -- I am a casual. LFR is probably the only way I'll get to raid this tier because my game time is limited and sporadic and I wouldn't burden my guild's regular raiding teams with that nonsense. In the past, that would have precluded me from raiding at all. In fact, it did -- I still haven't set foot inside the Firelands raid zone. And I'm OK with that.

I was simply pointing out that the absolute ease of the "final boss", and the massive swath of players who will now kill him in LFR, is markedly different from the approach/philosophy we've seen for the last 7 years. It's another layer of the accessibility push Blizzard has been making since the beginning of Wrath, and some people (like the OP) don't care for it.

Can you wade through that and respond to my points?

I fail to see how the end boss was easy, my raid group wiped twice on it, and we downed it only after I told the damn group what to do. and that was only because there are still alot of good raiders doing LFR, raiders in heroic FL gear. give it time, it was designed to be sort of challenging for people in 372. A group in all 372 could not do Madness, they would die on Kalegos' island.

[avx81]

People are never going to be happy. When cataclysm came out people were complaining that raids were to hard and almost impossible to pug.. at least until everyone got a ridiculous amount of gear. Only a small percentage of people were raiding and much less downing nef on normal. Personally, I don't think the the game should be like that. I like the direction that blizzard took. I actually recall bringing it up on the wow forums ages ago that their should be a way for everyone to see the content.

I came from raiding hard upwards of 5 days a week doing hard modes. Trust me, you get tired and burned out. LFR allows me to still see the content without having to sit through countless wipes for hours on end wondering what I'm doing wasting my time. I had my account cancelled because I was so tired of raiding and grinding but ended up coming back to check out the new system. They did a pretty good job with it aside from fixing the need system.

[Deleted]

Zarhym is a pro-active and highly intelligent and common-sense kinda guy.

As for the person who asked him the question, he got an appropriated response. LFR is fine, stop the whine if you're so pro enough to not enjoy its ease.

[Drakhar]

Actually this is not true, killing deathwing, an expantion boss with 22/23 players online, some half afked healers and pvp geared dps makes a mockery at the lore and the dramatic effect of the world breaker dragon, the peril of azeroth and all that jazz

I doubt you have even run LFR if you think this is true, either that or you ran it with 10 guildies. LFR is not a joke for the kind of groups it's designed for, it's like having Paragon say "lolol normal mode is a mockery of lore its so ezmode." LFR is by no means hard, but the way most groups go is wiping repeatedly to easy and avoidable mechanics until all the bads have dropped out and you get a reasonable group of players. You're not succeeding with healers afk and dps tanking or pulling 10k dps in pvp gear. That may be the case in a few months when everyone knows the mechanics and have much better gear, but at that point who cares?

[BatteredRose]

Good for Zarhym. That poster along with the other vocal minority of would-be elitists had it coming.

Edit: Responded to a flamebait post in annoyance but removed it.

[Velorian]

This is why I love Blizzard.

[Hanto]

I believe it was well deserved and Zarhym hit right on the mark. It is incredibly tiresome to listen to the same BS day in and day out about how this is dumbed down and how stupidly easy this and that is. WHY DO YOU CARE?! If you're doing it for the challenge, obviously heroics are for you. Get off of your high horse and do whatever makes the game fun for you, don't mind what other people do with their $15.

If clearing raids and strutting your elitism like some sort of God around capital cities is your idea of a good time, that died years ago. It's time to stop living in the past and get over it.

[melodramocracy]

See there you are falling into a trap of "only the good players" get to see end boss's. This is a game played by one hell of a lot more people then "only the best". Those elitist jackholes already have enough perks that they should just go back into their corner and play with their nice legendary items and be happy.

I'm sort of torn on this. Killing DW on the LFR was for me, at least, extremely anti-climactic simply because it was so very simple. And having seen 'what happens' once, anything beyond that is sort of ruined for me.

You don't need to be 'the best' to see this fight on normal. You need the ability to correct mistakes, perserverance, and knowledge, which are available to just about anyone willing to put the time in.

[OldHordeGlory]

The concerns of that guy seem silly to me, and Zarhym's response seems appropriate.

Imagine you work out at the gym. You're in good shape, sitting around like...15% body fat. You lift quite a bit of weight and are working out regularly, but you've kind of plateaued.

Now a rotund little ball of a man sporting 30% body fat comes in and starts jogging on the treadmill. He only comes two times a week, and never works as hard as you. Yet, over the next few weeks, he sees significant weight loss while you're working harder for less weight loss.

How silly would it be to go to the gym owner and say, "That guy shouldn't be allowed to come work out here! He hardly comes at all, and he's getting results! I put in more work than he did, and he's losing weight before I do?!"

The gym owner would appropriately say, "He's not as strong as you, and he never will be at that rate. Your reward is not in losing weight faster than everyone else, it's in having a healthy body for you to enjoy and be proud of. Stop caring about other people losing weight more easily."

That's effectively what happened there.

[mysticx]

I loved that reply, the game is being made for more people than the hardcore raiders, and it is high time said hardcore raiders realized that, so there are three difficulty modes for raids. if the lowest one is beneath some players' station, they can do the higher difficulties and wallow in how l33t they are, while other people are having fun their way...

[WinninOne]

If a someone from a company I give my money to replied to me in that manner I would just smack him in the face with no regret.

Zarhym's paycheck is not a green light for community members to abuse him or the other CM's. I was satisfied with Zarhym's post because it echoes the frustration I feel regarding the complaint of the original poster. Considering the tone of the replies Zarhym is likely to receive for his post it's a miracle he bothers at all.

[Ave07]

Unprofessional but, needed to be said with the huge amount of LFR qq threads, well done.

[Deleted]

Getting a bit sick of the "but what about the lore?" thing. If wanted the story to come first and make sense I will read a book. Stories in video games, while having their own merits, come in second place to the gameplay. So a bunch of scrubs got carried by a handful of raiders in LFR to defeat The Great Destroyer of Worlds, Deathwing. Good for them. It's people enjoying the game,which in any sane world, is a good thing for a subscription based game. Then if you wanna see the "real" Deathwing, there is Heroic mode. (That's not to mention how much sense it makes in lore for 25 guys to beat Deathwing just cause they are wearing some magically stat inflated gear)

[StationaryHawk]

Actually this is not true, killing deathwing, an expantion boss with 22/23 players online, some half afked healers and pvp geared dps makes a mockery at the lore and the dramatic effect of the world breaker dragon, the peril of azeroth and all that jazz

If it makes you feel any better, you're going to be generalized as "heroes" anyways. It's not like you personally killed Deathwing, the Lich King, Illidan, C'thun, Yogg-Saron, or any of the other big baddies lore-wise.

[Herecius]

I know all you who don't have decent guilds and don't take this game seriously will disagree,

Good. This is a bad attitude. While there's nothing wrong with taking a game seriously, telling everybody else that they also need to take it seriously isn't ok.

[redruMPanda]

He's right ya know? They implemented the LFR so more than 2% of the subs can actually see the content. It's been an issue for years and they finally fixed it.

[Deleted]

Zarhym was right on the subject of LFR.
But the way he responded was indeed very unprofessionnal.
Not that I'm surprised though, I come to expect less and less from Blizzard with each passing day.

But the situation will probably improve in 2012.
People fed up with WoW/Blizzard will leave for SWTOR/GW2/FFXIV/whatever and stop caring.
So I'd expect forums to be more constructive as only people genuinely interested will stay.

[malkara]

I'd like to see you to keep professional after you see post after post of unsupportive, indecent, downright rude or even attacking posts. I'd honestly like to see some more of these kinds of responses to be honest. It might make the "I'm going to make a post filled with critique on Blizzard but without supplying anything decent other than U SUCK" kind of posts less common on the forums.

[Worgoblin]

I love his response. But then I was also a huge fan of Tseric, and thought he should have gotten a raise after his rant, rather than fired.

[Sliske]

Good on him. I love it when GMs give these retards a slap in the face every now and then.