1. #421
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    I really think the heat will be worried about the Magic. If D.Howard goes insane nobody on the Heat can guard him but if he doesn't play good then there done.
    I don't think the Heat are worried about the Magic at all. Sure Howard can go off and score like crazy since he outmatches the Heat interior, but the Heat have one of the best perimeter defenses in the NBA, if not the best with Battier on the floor, and Orlando absolutely lives and dies by the outside shot. They have never, ever, ever been a team that dumps it down to Howard and lets him go to work because that strategy works for a quarter then everyone plays Hack a Dwight and Orlando finishes the night with 59 points. Orlando will go exactly as far as Anderson carries them. He is their best perimeter threat by a mile. If he is off or being shut down by Battier or LeBron, good night Orlando. Orlando beat the Heat the other day thanks to their big emotional boost from Howard's decision and Nelson having his best game in a long, long time. And even with that, they barely beat the Heat. In a seven game series with the new addition of Turiaf off the bench, the Heat will destroy the Magic and thats assuming that the Magic get past Atlanta or Indiana or whoever they play in the first round which I wouldn't bet a dollar on.

    The only team I would pick Orlando to beat out of all their potential matchups (NY, Boston, Indy, Atlanta, Philly) would be Boston because they have absolutely no interior players at all. The Heat don't have the best interior guys, but they at least have guys that are decent and LeBron one of the top two most versatile defenders in the NBA. Boston literally has no big interior presence except for an aging Garnett. Philly has Iggy,t the other most versatile defender in the NBA, Hawes, Brand, Vucevic, and Young. New york has Chandler. Indiana has a plethora of guys including Psycho T who may just go out and hard foul him six times and completely throw off Howard's game.

  2. #422
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    OKC just housed the Heat sure it was a home game for the Thunder but a win is still a win. I only watched the 2nd half but the Heat was down 15 points pretty much the whole time.

  3. #423
    Mike Brown benches Kobe for Meta mid 4th Q of last night's loss. Kobe walks past Mike Brown without saying anything and slams the chair...

    How is no one talking about this?!

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Mike Brown benches Kobe for Meta mid 4th Q of last night's loss. Kobe walks past Mike Brown without saying anything and slams the chair...

    How is no one talking about this?!

    Because a player being frustrated at having a bad night, both personally and team wise, hit a chair? Why would anyone talk about this?


    Have you ever been to a game? Players do this alllll the time. Everyone always trying to try and bring Kobe down, if it had been Lebron you probably would not have said anything.

  5. #425
    I don't know why people aren't talking about it. I said a few days ago Brown needed to do something to get control of Kobe. A few others have noticed how poorly he's been playing lately, and basically losing games for his team.

    Maybe that motivates him finally. Puts him into that "fuck you" mode and he starts dropping 50 on teams, and raises the whole team to the level they probably should be. Although maybe he sulks like a toddler for the rest of the year and Brown gets fired. Who knows. Something needed to happen though.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twiddly View Post
    Because a player being frustrated at having a bad night, both personally and team wise, hit a chair? Why would anyone talk about this?


    Have you ever been to a game? Players do this alllll the time. Everyone always trying to try and bring Kobe down, if it had been Lebron you probably would not have said anything.
    Thing is though Kobe wasn't having a terrible night. It wasn't like he was shooting 3 of 20 like the other night, taking shots from everyone, etc. He wasn't performing int he first half, but he was a big reason they got back into the game in the second half. It was a weird benching for sure, but I think it was Brown trying to send a message that the Lakers need to win as a team and not rely on one guy. It was a poor "team" game for the Lakers. They were awful without Sessions on the floor. +/- is a terrible stats, but Blake was nearly -20 in his limited time last night that is how dysfunctional they are with him at the point. Brown deserves a healthy chunk of the criticism for sure, but I don't see how anyone could blame the benching on Kobe's play at all when they only reason they weren't down by 15 is because of him.


    And if LeBron had been benched for the stretch run of a close game, yes it would have been talked about just like Kobe being benched would have.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 01:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    I don't know why people aren't talking about it. I said a few days ago Brown needed to do something to get control of Kobe. A few others have noticed how poorly he's been playing lately, and basically losing games for his team.

    Maybe that motivates him finally. Puts him into that "fuck you" mode and he starts dropping 50 on teams, and raises the whole team to the level they probably should be. Although maybe he sulks like a toddler for the rest of the year and Brown gets fired. Who knows. Something needed to happen though.
    Personally, and this is just me saying this although i have heard others, if the Lakers don't make a deep run this year I think you consider trading Kobe. He is still a great player, but since there is no way in hell he reworks that contract I think you try and move him to another team willing to take his terrible contract and start to rebuild. Why continue to pay one guy the salary of two max players? The new Lakers owner, just like the Yankees new owners, wants to get the team under or much closer to the luxury tax that their fathers were willing to spend well beyond. What better way to do that than to trade the biggest cap killing contract in sports. It doesn't make you popular with fans or the media for a year or two, but when you are rebuilt you will be fine. Look at Cleveland. Their owner completely screwed up the LeBron deal and had tons of people pissed at him, until he managed to win a fair chunk of the stupider ones back with his anti-LeBron letter. Now they have Irving and are a team on the upswing again and soon enough people will forget how badly they mishandled LeBron.

    If the Lakers were to deal Kobe and Gasol this offseason for picks and fat expiring contracts they could slide in the 2012-13 season on a team that is Bynum and crap else. Then they would have 1-2 first round picks, good ones, in the 2013 draft with a boatload of money to spend on free agents like:
    Unrestricted or opt out: Chris Paul, Devin Harris, Monta Ellis, Andre Iguodala, Kevin Martin, Tony Allen, Josh Smith, David West, DeJuan Blair, Paul Milsap, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum (UFA 2013)
    Then there are a boatload of other guys who are RFAs or have team options for 2013 that could be on the market as well.

    Why not? Sure you will be mediocre for one season, or good depending on when the deals go down and for what pieces, but the following year you could build your own core of star players again this time on cap friendly contracts. You would save tons of money on luxury tax. Right now, the Lakers are looking at roughly $90 million in salary next season. That in luxury tax alone will cost them an additional $20 million for being over the cap of around $70 million in 2012. When that gets to 2013, they are fucked big time. The new luxury tax penalties kick in in 2013 and they look like this:
    Over Cap Tax owed per Dollar
    $0-5 million $1.50
    $5-10m $1.75
    $10-15m $2.50
    $15+ $3.25

    If you spend $20 million over the luxury tax line you pay $1.50 per dollar on the first $5 million, $1.75 on the next $5 million, etc. At their roughly $90 million payroll in 2013, they will owe FORTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS in luxury tax. $45 million in tax alone. No way in hell do the Lakers brass want to do that. Why not send Kobe to a team that will use his massive salary hit to get to the salary cap floor (Bobcats, Nets, etc.) in the process saving yourself $30 million in salary alone and $45 million in tax alone in 2013. (Ya thats right, Kobe will cost the Lakers $75 million in 2013 if he is still on the team and everyone else isn't a league minimum or real cheap guy).

    The Lakers could go into the 2013 luxury tax season with a roster that contains one max player in Andrew Bynum and enough salary room to comfortably add a second max or a couple star players and still have enough room to complement them with good players. Or the Lakers could go into 2013 with Bryant still on the team and either be completely abysmal thanks to being unable to pay anyone or they could support a similar salary to now and give the Charlotte Bobcats, etc. $45 million in revenue sharing money.

    Oh and if the Lakers exceeded the luxury tax again in 2014 they would owe $1.00 for each million they are over thanks to the repeat offender clause in it. Teams are going to crunch on salaries hard to avoid being at or even close to the levels of teams like Boston, LA, and Orlando are now.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 01:49 PM ----------

    Then again, none of that really matters since Kobe has a NTC so hopefully he enjoys playing on a Lakers team real similar to the Kwame Brown Lakers in 2013.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-03-26 at 05:43 PM.

  7. #427
    they cant trade Kobe unless Kobe demands to be traded. they dont want to just kill a huge portion of their fanbase that wont forgive them and will stop watching and coming to the games. Is Kobes contract a lot sure... but he makes up for it and more with his market value. he brings in a way more revenue to the team than that contract gives to him and at the end of the day owners want to make money not lose it.

    One thing I wanted to talk about that I noticed the other day, maybe someone here can help me with this. Hawks and Jazz went into 4 overtimes which is pretty crazy but when I looked at the box score something glaringly stuck out to me. In the first overtime...
    BOTH TEAMS SCORED 2 POINTS EACH
    Like wtf happened? Was anybody watching this? That is so pathetically abysmal to score 2 points in 5 minutes on both sides. Thats basically like if the 1st quarter ended and the final score was 5 to 5.

    Edit: Going over the play by play on NBA.com for it
    Missed jump shot
    Missed 3pt
    Missed jump shot
    Turnover
    Missed hook shot
    MADE BASKET
    Missed 3pt
    Missed hook shot
    Turnover
    Missed 3pt
    Missed jump shot
    Missed layup
    MADE BASKET
    Missed layup
    Missed jump shot
    Missed dunk
    Missed jump shot
    Missed 3pt

    So looks like the 2 teams were 2-16 from the field (a whopping 12.5%). No FTs were attempted.
    Last edited by Jibjabb; 2012-03-26 at 07:14 PM.

  8. #428
    Wow... that overtime sounds awful. I don't know much about the Hawks or Jazz though, so can't really comment.

    But ya conscript.... Kobe has a "No trade" clause in his contract. A few of my friends were talking about it the other day. One of them brought up the idea of using the amnesty to waive Kobe after next year. His contract will be half of the salary cap.

    I think it'll ultimately depend on their performance in the playoffs this year. If they don't at least get into a competitive series with the Thunder, a lot of people might be calling for a team blow up.

    If they do well in the playoffs this year though, there's no reason to deal any of the starters. They have at least 2 good champion pushes left.

  9. #429
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jibjabb;16129889]they cant trade Kobe unless Kobe demands to be traded. they dont want to just kill a huge portion of their fanbase that wont forgive them and will stop watching and coming to the games. Is Kobes contract a lot sure... but he makes up for it and more with his market value. he brings in a way more revenue to the team than that contract gives to him and at the end of the day owners want to make money not lose it.

    No player is bigger then the Lakers its like saying if D.Jeter got booted by the Yanks people would stop going. The Lakers are the most loved/hated team in the past 40 years people will always watch the Lakers. The Heat need Lebron and D.Wade, the Magic needs D.Howard, the Celtics don't need P.Pierce and K.G there about the only 2 teams I can think of that don't need players for people to watch them of course it always helps to have that star or two but do you think Kobe would be the superstar he was today if he was drafted by the Bucks or Trailblazers and played with them for 15 years.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    they cant trade Kobe unless Kobe demands to be traded. they dont want to just kill a huge portion of their fanbase that wont forgive them and will stop watching and coming to the games. Is Kobes contract a lot sure... but he makes up for it and more with his market value. he brings in a way more revenue to the team than that contract gives to him and at the end of the day owners want to make money not lose it.
    Bullshit he does. ANY star player is going to bring in fans enough to fill the seats. No player is worth the absolute team killing contract Kobe is on. I don't care how many tickets he brings in, jerseys he sells, etc. He certainly doesn't bring in twice as much revenue from those sources as LeBron, Dwight, Chris Paul, etc. Kobe is literally going to cost his team $75 million in 2013 to have on the team. He should be lower than that the next year when they are forced into a contract that matches the new CBA. You don't need Kobe to be a successful franchise with great attendance. The Jazz, Warriors, and Blazers have zero "superstars" and they all have similar ticket sales to the Lakers in far worse markets. When you have a contract that literally prevents you from building a decent team without spending $50 million in tax and revenue sharing, you have to fix the issue. If they don't do anything about Kobe's contract they will lose Bynum in 2013 because it will be simply impossible to fit Bynum, Kobe, and Gasol on the same team, assuming they don't trade Gasol, and still have any sort of support cast. If you thought the Lakers bench looked bad this year, just wait until they can only sign league minimum guys because their three best players put them into tax by themselves. If you're the Lakers would you rather have Kobe and a terrible supporting cast or Paul, Howard, a bevy of good picks and a solid supporting cast? The answer should be obvious.

    If the Lakers were to have gotten Paul and Howard this year like they wanted I honestly think they would have shot for a title this year and maybe next then amnestyed Bryant if he didn't rework his deal.

    @ Windry: Ya the amnesty is certainly an option, but even in that case the Lakers will still have to pay a big chunk of his salary unless some team goes absolutely insane in the bidding process which could happen. If you are the Bobcats do you pass on paying his entire salary in an amnesty auction? I wouldn't. That kind of contradicts the post I made above, but Kobe would mean much more to a terrible franchise like Charlotte than he does the Lakers in secondary financing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-26 at 08:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    No player is bigger then the Lakers its like saying if D.Jeter got booted by the Yanks people would stop going.
    I think more people would go if they got rid of Jeter actually lol. Tickets would be cheaper since they wouldn't have his ridiculously overpriced contract on the books. The contract they gave Jeter last year was absolutely a joke. They could have let him go, dealt with a replacement level SS, then signed Reyes for the foreseeable future for less money than they are paying Jeter.

  11. #431
    Basketball is far more player marketable than Baseball is. The Lakers franchise is by far the richest of all the NBA teams, almost tripling Portland's in value. Ticket sales is a nice source of revenue but its hardly the only source with TV deals/merchandising etc. The Lakers have had the top selling jerseys as a team since 2006 and Kobe Bryant has been #1 or #2 in those sales every year since that time (possible exception being this year) and was in the top 5 the years prior to that. Is Kobe solely responsible for that income gain? No ofc not but he is a driving reason keeping the Laker brand alive and relevant well past their former greats retired.

    Even more recently Albert Pujols got a contract worth 240 million over 10 yrs to play for the Angels. A rediculous looking contract indeed. From a baseball standpoint he was vastly overpaid especially considering his age but from a business standpoint despite that he is in Los Angeles (like Kobe) a thriving market he will still be able to surpass that in increasing the value of the team's brand, for a Baseball team no less. The teams making these deals arent idiots they know how to increase their teams value even if it means overpaying a player to do so. It sucks to say but it isnt always about the product on the field/court.

  12. #432
    @Conscript
    - Bynum has "Bird Rights," so the Lakers will be able to offer him more money than anyone else out there, regardless of how far over the cap they are.

    - If you don't use the amnesty on Kobe, there is no other way to get him off the books. Again, he has a player controlled "no trade" clause in his contract. Kobe would automatically veto any trade that would send him to a losing team. I don't see any winning team out there that could take or want his contract either, and even if you found one, you'd still have to convince Kobe to OK the deal. The best thing Laker fans can hope for is he agrees to re-negotiate his contract.

    - It is likely that the Lakers will try desperately to dump Steve Blake and Meta Worldpeace regardless after this season.
    - Fisher trade for Jordan Hill was a pure salary dump. Jordan Hill and Matt Barnes are coming off the books this year. Personally, I think they should re-sign Matt Barnes for veteran's minimum.

    I think it's ultimately going to turn out like:
    1) They have a great playoffs -> keeping Gasol, Bynum, Bryant, Sessions, and fill the rest of the team with league min or veteran's min for a decent team next year.
    2) They have a terrible playoffs -> they start giving away everyone like they did with Odom. Then they'd Keep Bynum and Sessions, and try to build a team around them. Then they would try to convince Kobe to re-negotiate or amnesty him.
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-03-27 at 01:49 AM.

  13. #433
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    And Stoudemire will be out for a while with a bulging disk in his back. Wonder how the Knicks will do as just The Melo Show now.

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  14. #434
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    [/COLOR] I think more people would go if they got rid of Jeter actually lol. Tickets would be cheaper since they wouldn't have his ridiculously overpriced contract on the books. The contract they gave Jeter last year was absolutely a joke. They could have let him go, dealt with a replacement level SS, then signed Reyes for the foreseeable future for less money than they are paying Jeter.[/QUOTE]

    That's still Jeters town they love him up there but I do agree they did over pay him esp for his age and his low productive numbers. Even saying that thou if they traded him or cut him or whatever the fans would be pissed but you know what Yank's tickets would still be a billion dollars and would be hard to get just like the Lakers without Kobe

  15. #435
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    The Magic got blown out by the Knicks by 20+, and at one point were down by 39. Makes you wonder what kind of shitstorm would fly if they instead manage to comeback from that deficit.

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  16. #436
    Kevin Love is just absolute beast mode this entire month. 40 and 19 tonight (Against the bobcats, but still, he has proven he can do it to real teams) Just watching him you automatically think "Superstar" not just "highlight reel" like the other big name young power forward.

    Ridnour is doing very well replacing Rubio, kind of surprising really. Wolves do not have a chance at anything really, but they are sure entertaining as hell to watch, and next year they will just be even better.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Auguine View Post
    Kevin Love is just absolute beast mode this entire month. 40 and 19 tonight (Against the bobcats, but still, he has proven he can do it to real teams) Just watching him you automatically think "Superstar" not just "highlight reel" like the other big name young power forward.

    Ridnour is doing very well replacing Rubio, kind of surprising really. Wolves do not have a chance at anything really, but they are sure entertaining as hell to watch, and next year they will just be even better.
    What you say brings up an arguement I was having earlier cause I still say he isnt a Superstar. Hes good. Heck, hes really good. But Superstar? I guess it depends on your defintion. To me it means able to carry a team to victory. Not just 1 game anyone can do a game but consistently through the playoffs and I dont think hes there. I dont think Kevin Love can carry a team. Hes the notch right below the Durants, Bryants, Roses, Nowitzkis. He is a stat stuffer and he "could" get there in the future, hes certainly much better than I originally had anticipated. Lets see how he does in the playoffs this year, maybe he will change my mind.

    But yes I agree Ive always thought he was a better player than Blake Griffin

  18. #438
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Is he better then Blake Griffin maybe is he a superstar like Blake Griffin no. Blake Griffin is a superstar he has better highlight reels,monster dunks,commercials and he's in L.A. Kevin Love has none of that.

  19. #439
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    What you say brings up an arguement I was having earlier cause I still say he isnt a Superstar. Hes good. Heck, hes really good. But Superstar? I guess it depends on your defintion. To me it means able to carry a team to victory. Not just 1 game anyone can do a game but consistently through the playoffs and I dont think hes there. I dont think Kevin Love can carry a team. Hes the notch right below the Durants, Bryants, Roses, Nowitzkis. He is a stat stuffer and he "could" get there in the future, hes certainly much better than I originally had anticipated. Lets see how he does in the playoffs this year, maybe he will change my mind.

    But yes I agree Ive always thought he was a better player than Blake Griffin
    He is the best PF (or PFC, either way) in the NBA and it isn't even close. If you match him up solely against 4s, the next best guy is Dirk averaging 5.6 points and 7 boards fewer than Love. If you match him up solely against other 4/5 combo guys he is tops in points and rebounds by a mile. Kevin Love has been BY FAR the most clutch big man in the NBA this year. His clutch points per 48 minutes is 33.9 good for around 15th in the NBA shooting nearly 40% from 3. For comparison, Kobe is averaging 32.1 CP/48. The best in the NBA by a mile is Durant at 55.2 CP/48.

    You won't get to see him in the playoffs unfortunately because they play in the West and their PG is done for the year which sucks because the Wolves are a damn good team when healthy. When they got everyone on the floor and were really finding their groove you could see how massively improved this team was under Rick Adalman. Love is a big reason for that. If you define superstar as the best or one of the best players at his position in the NBA, a guy that a team relies on to take the big shots in crunch time, a guy that has repeatedly put the team on his back this year, you would be absolutely insane not to call Kevin Love a superstar. Love has more 30/20 games this season than the entire NBA combined. He is the active leader in 30/20 games, one ahead of Duncan who has played ~15 more years than Love. The guy is an absolute monster.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 05:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    Is he better then Blake Griffin maybe is he a superstar like Blake Griffin no. Blake Griffin is a superstar he has better highlight reels,monster dunks,commercials and he's in L.A. Kevin Love has none of that.
    The word you are looking for is media star, not superstar. Superstar athletes are the upper echelon level players in their sport. Blake Griffin is not that. Blake Griffin is second tier at best. He is a media star, not a superstar. Big dunks don't make you a superstar, hitting clutch free throws down the stretch of games, carrying a team on your back, those things make you a superstar. Blake doesn't do that. Blake throws down big dunks. He pouts at refs. He can't hit a clutch free throw to save his life. He is a media creation. A good player sure, but he is so incredibly lacking in so many areas it is comical to believe anyone would actually include him on that upper level of NBA athletes like Durant, James, Bryant, Love, Duncan, etc. Those guys are super stars. They go out and win you games on the floor, not fans from watching highlight reels. If Sportscenter didn't exist or Blake played in a non-LA market (where ESPN just so happens to do SC from), Blake wouldn't even be mentioned with nearly the enthusiasm that he is right now.

    Blake Griffin is Joe Johnson with better rebounding and dunking ability but far worse shooting, free throw shooting, etc. Still an All Star level player, but he barely gets 1% of the mentions Blake does because he plays in Atlanta and not LA.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-03-29 at 09:21 PM.

  20. #440
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Oh I know who Joe Johnson is when I was in high school we was the only team to beat his team that year. He went to central little rock I went to North little rock high but anyways yeah I said Kevin Love was better but he doesn't get the attention as Blake because he doesn't play in a big market team he isn't in any commercials and doesn't posterize people with crazy dunks.

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