I won't let you touch my [Prot 4-set]

[Kennycommenter]

I just had a strange un-easiness about a Prot paladin's 4 set bonus for t13. Even 2 set kinda bugs me. I mean, I use Judgement often enough, but with full censure (now that our judgement does more damage per stacks of censure) I'll get a 2k bubble. Which is nice, but even tanking LFR, it doesn't do THAT much. But that's understandable for a 2-set.

However, my feelings are stuck on the Reduced cooldown and increased range for Divine guardian. I love DG, but i really use it when our raid messes up. Such as, some raid members not moving out of Rag's Engulfing flames, or more recently, for when we do Zon'ozz' Ping pong. And speaking if i did 25 mans, its a no brainer that its an awesome ability. But with T12 to compare to, 12% more parry after using Divine protection, i feel like that had more use to me. Granted a 4-set is alot easier to get in T13 than previous, but I still feel we are being jipped. I'm curious to see what other prot paladins have to say about this.

Kennypaladin - US - Laughing Skull

[andremello]

2k bubbles? I've been getting 6 to 8k bubbles, and that's not bad at all in my opinion.

You will also find that reduced CD on DG is very good for fights in DS, especially in heroic mode.

[Malthanis]

I still don't understand why people think those absorbs are so bad. You're a tank, so every point of damage not taken is you doing your job.

As for the 4pc, it puts DG back up to where it used to be, before they nerfed it because it was too damned good. So you're effectively saying that you don't want an awesome raid-wide CD?

[MerinPally]

The reason the 4set is awesome and is superior to the other tank 4sets, is that it is not tied in to your own survival.

The Warrior one uses Shield wall, the druid one uses Frenzy Regen and the DK one uses Vampiric Blood. With all of these cooldowns, you must choose whether to use it to save yourself or to help out the raid. The beauty of the paladin one is that Dsac has no direct impact on our own survival, only indirect (healers healing you instead of the raid). This means we can use it when it's needed and we don't have to juggle between saving ourselves and then others, because if you die lets be honest, you might wipe anyway so the dilemma hits.

Another good way to see it is that in 6minutes you used to get 2 procs, lets say it prevented 200k damage (not too inconciveable when you think about it, seeing as it might absorb 2 big raid wide hits) and it does that twice so 400k. With the new one it will do 600k. That's a flat 33% increase in damage prevented. Then, due to range, on something like Madness of Deathwing if your raid stacks near the claw rather than the tentacle when the Ele Bolt slams down, it will help. Trust me on this, the range pays for itself.

So what you get is a 33% increase to the damage prevented at least, and then some range on it to boot to make it even better. It's oh so worth it.

[Lucetia]

2k bubbles? I've been getting 6 to 8k bubbles, and that's not bad at all in my opinion.

You will also find that reduced CD on DG is very good for fights in DS, especially in heroic mode.

I'm curious to see how you are getting 6k to 8k bubbles. I'm sitting in 383 gear with 7589 AP unbuffed/no vengeance and I get a 1538 absorb shield. After Vengeance and might it goes up to 1800/2000ish. If I waste Holy Power on Inquisition then it gains roughly an extra 400. I don't see how you get anywhere close to 6-8k bubbles.

I was comparing my 2pc with a warrior earlier tonight and his would proc a 5k absorb shield every 4 seconds while mine procced a 1.5k absorb shield every 8 seconds. Not exactly sure how this set bonus is good compared to the 4pc T12 where you would actually negate attacks with the increased parry.

4pc T13 looks good on paper, but I'm surprised it doesn't include the ability of the paladin casting gains benefit. All the other classes 4pc they got the benefit included baseline on the ability. Now we get a reduced cooldown for the raid with no real benefit to ourselves. Not saying it's worthless, just curious where the bonus makes it worth considering from a survivability standpoint.

[Deleted]

I still don't understand why people think those absorbs are so bad. You're a tank, so every point of damage not taken is you doing your job.

As for the 4pc, it puts DG back up to where it used to be, before they nerfed it because it was too damned good. So you're effectively saying that you don't want an awesome raid-wide CD?

Compared to the other tanks' 4pc which give them brand new raid CDs, yes, it is pretty shitty. The range increase is useless now, it might have helped in FL but for DS fights there are very few cases where it'll be needed. The CD reduction is nice, and it'll allow it to sync up with a few more abilities but it's still not as good as getting a whole new raid cooldown. The Prot set bonuses in general are crap compared to other tanks imo. Theirs do the same thing, just MORE of it.

[pbad]

The range increase has already been useful on the first 2 heroic fights. H Morchok the 2 bosses are split so far it allows it to reach more of/all the raid, and if you've seen the blood phase of H Zon'ozz you'll understand why you want that range increase. And this was already stated by merrinpally but yeah we don't get a "new" ability but ours isn't tied in to our personal defensive ability. We rushed 4 pc for all of our tanks are are glad we did. But I can tell you there are times when the warrior might really want a personal shield wall but the raid doesn't need one and vice versa. If we have a planned use for that warrior's raid wall for X, Y, Z mechanic he can't really just blow it because things got dicey for him. The paladin doesn't have to debate that conflict of interest.

[Krowz]

T13 4p turns the other 3 tanks personal damage cd's into raid wide cd's

For prot pallies, it just bufffs their current existing raid wide cd.

This means that you can reduce the damage taken by your raid without having to blow and potentially waste a personal CD. Think of it this way, on DW if a warrior tank pops his Shield Wall to mitigate damage from a bolt, he has no shield wall for impale. Prot pally could use raid wall, shield the raid from the bolt, and still have shield wall for himself.

[Ferocity]

4p set bonus is situationally very useful. After all those nerfs to DG, 4pt13 actually gives us close to prenerfed useable DG, not a joke we have now. 2 out of 5 items are itemized plain horribly though (gloves, shoulders).

2p set bonus was also more interesting on earlier stages of PTR (when it was giving something like 50% of damage from Judgement to shield). 4k !physical only! absorb with maximum vengeance in magic heavy fights is sad, don't expect to see bigger than 2k shields though, also Judgement is subject to misses. Still helm and chest do actually look as a must to use them for 2p, so free bonus along the way.

I'd say go with 4p set bonus on fights which require to use DG often/cover big range (Yor'sahj, halfly Zon'ozz and Spine), and use offset pieces for other fights, amount of survival sacrificed via improperly itemized tier pieces is huge.

[Deleted]

I'm a resto druid so I probably don't belong here in the bubbledin section, but as far as heroic raiding goes; I would kill for our prot paladin to have 4 set while we progress. The damage on the bosses beyond Murchok is ridiculous.

[Splosion]

I'm curious to see how you are getting 6k to 8k bubbles. I'm sitting in 383 gear with 7589 AP unbuffed/no vengeance and I get a 1538 absorb shield. After Vengeance and might it goes up to 1800/2000ish. If I waste Holy Power on Inquisition then it gains roughly an extra 400. I don't see how you get anywhere close to 6-8k bubbles.

I was comparing my 2pc with a warrior earlier tonight and his would proc a 5k absorb shield every 4 seconds while mine procced a 1.5k absorb shield every 8 seconds. Not exactly sure how this set bonus is good compared to the 4pc T12 where you would actually negate attacks with the increased parry.

4pc T13 looks good on paper, but I'm surprised it doesn't include the ability of the paladin casting gains benefit. All the other classes 4pc they got the benefit included baseline on the ability. Now we get a reduced cooldown for the raid with no real benefit to ourselves. Not saying it's worthless, just curious where the bonus makes it worth considering from a survivability standpoint.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...593307#p593307

Judgement does 25k damage at 100% vengeance (a normal mode+ DS raid boss). 25k * 0.25 = 6.25k. If you were only getting 1.5k bubbles your average judgement was 6k. That's probably at a 0% vengeance scenario (you're not tanking anything).

As for the 4set, it doesn't have to benefit our survival, because we already gained a survival set bonus. This one is very strong for the raid, and as such (go watch the inner Sanctum Warmaster heroic video, and just how low the raid drops with each shout), it's worth picking up because of the nature of DS raid bosses

[Ferocity]

2k bubbles? I've been getting 6 to 8k bubbles, and that's not bad at all in my opinion.

You will also find that reduced CD on DG is very good for fights in DS, especially in heroic mode.

6 to 8k bubbles? Running with demo warlock in group or getting non-blocked hits to keep maximum vengeance?:P
Morchok hc doable without it, Zon'ozz hc is dps check - healable ok but if dps lacks then 2nd dark phase will have you. Yor'sahj - there might agree.
Hagara hc - just need fast coordination on conductors. Might agree on Spine. On Madness just no way - amount of damage tanks get there (via description of fight in journal) just pure insanity and 2 out of 5 tier pieces provide very poor survival in comparison to offsets.

[zuke8675309]

Madness of Deathwing is a perfect example of why the Prot Pally 4piece is superior and why the Warrior 4piece isn't. When tanking the Mutated Corruption, you need to pop a major cooldown to survive the dmg from Impale. If you're a prot pally, no big deal - GoAK or AD and you keep on trucking. Then you can still use Divine Guardian to help healers with the Blistering Tentacle dmg. You can do this on every platform.

If you're a warrior, you're of no help during Blistering Tentacle dmg because since you used your Shield Wall during Impale, it isn't available during Blistering Tentacles. To add insult to injury, the raid dmg during the time you did use your shield wall was non-existent.

[abijax]

You can use external cooldowns for impales. And the warrior set is the worst example of the 3, dk and druid ones are a huge advantage in some fights not to mention you can use druid one as dps if you're in dire need of more raid cds.

[Papi]

If you're a prot pally, no big deal - GoAK or AD and you keep on trucking. Then you can still use Divine Guardian to help healers with the Blistering Tentacle dmg. You can do this on every platform.

1 good instance on where we shine Our raid also splits a fair amount when Elementium Bolts hit that we cannot kill in the air, so raid wall can reach everyone on the platform.

[chris1554]

The 4 set is lame yes but it is awesome for the raid non the less. 100 yards and 2minute cd's soaks a massive amount of damage on heroic fights. Like zon'ozz Heroic when people are all over the room and the AoE damage is INSANE your raid wall will now reach everyone instead of the previous 30yards.

2set is fine really, its free absorbtion its not great but far from the worst 2set we've had this expansion ( all being for TPS).

[Deleted]

anyone know how the 4 set bonus stacks up with thrall's buff on ultraxon? is it really a once a minute raid wall for 12 seconds (so a 20% flat damg reduction for your raid for over 1/5th of the whole fight) or do the two cd reduction effects work in a different order?

[Deleted]

2k bubbles? I've been getting 6 to 8k bubbles, and that's not bad at all in my opinion
.

I assume 2k bubbles is with seal of insight. With seal of truth you can judge (5-stacks) for 20k hits even with average vengeance, making 8k bubbles easily possible as well. Though I think using seal of insight still yields better results than the higher absorb shield the 2-piece gives.

[davep]

Compared to the other tanks' 4pc which give them brand new raid CDs, yes, it is pretty shitty. The range increase is useless now, it might have helped in FL but for DS fights there are very few cases where it'll be needed. The CD reduction is nice, and it'll allow it to sync up with a few more abilities but it's still not as good as getting a whole new raid cooldown. The Prot set bonuses in general are crap compared to other tanks imo. Theirs do the same thing, just MORE of it.

Umm what? It gives the other takes a new raid cooldown but it takes away from their personal cooldowns which just blows. Also raid damage and distancing from the raid is a big part of the heroic modes.

[Valius]

One of the most helpfull 4 set's I've had.