Should GW2 have raids?

[SPeedy26]

Seriously? Who necro'ed this cesspool of a topic?

you'd rather they make a brand new "will GW2 have raiding?" thread?

[Squirrelbanes]

Seriously? Who necro'ed this cesspool of a topic?

This whole discussion is pointless, no matter which board I'm at, those topics don't bring anything to the table. So we have:
- religious zealots on both (WoW and GW2) sides
- people who don't get the idea that MMO genre is NOT defined by raids
- massive amount of misinformed individuals with claims which have no backing in real statistics and facts
- endless discussion about who's point of view is the right one

This discussion is going nowhere.

I don't understand why this was not closed after 1st page. I mean, Anet many, many times said that:
- they do not think raids are needed in GW2
- they are not even considering this type of content

It's so far away concept for them that you might as well ask for a free midget sex slave with every copy of GW2 - it's just not going to happen.

Well, I've personally enjoyed our little discussion on some of the side-points today :/
Sorry we offended you......
Also.. chill

[heyvid21]

Seriously? Who necro'ed this cesspool of a topic?

This whole discussion is pointless, no matter which board I'm at, those topics don't bring anything to the table. So we have:
- religious zealots on both (WoW and GW2) sides
- people who don't get the idea that MMO genre is NOT defined by raids
- massive amount of misinformed individuals with claims which have no backing in real statistics and facts
- endless discussion about who's point of view is the right one

This discussion is going nowhere.

I don't understand why this was not closed after 1st page. I mean, Anet many, many times said that:
- they do not think raids are needed in GW2
- they are not even considering this type of content

It's so far away concept for them that you might as well ask for a free midget sex slave with every copy of GW2 - it's just not going to happen.

Chill your nerdrage. This game is still in production. If you think that what the developers have said won't change over time, you're deluding yourself.

[Deleted]

Well, I've personally enjoyed our little discussion on some of the side-points today :/
Sorry we offended you......
Also.. chill

So you admit that you were here only for off topic discussion ;> ? Why bump a flame fest when you can start new topic about those things? And.. I'm not offended oO, I'm more like.. you know.. "sigh".

you'd rather they make a brand new "will GW2 have raiding?" thread?

I would rather to this one be locked and every new one would get deleted. I mean, we both agree that this topic reached its constructive discussion peak, many pages ago? Everything that was to be said about this matter, was already did.

[heyvid21]

So you admit that you were here only for off topic discussion ;> ? Why bump a flame fest when you can start new topic about those things? And.. I'm not offended oO, I'm more like.. you know.. "sigh".

I would rather to this one be locked and every new one would get deleted. I mean, we both agree that this topic reached its constructive discussion peak, many pages ago? Everything that was to be said about this matter, was already did.

Luckily for us, you don't get to decide what people should and shouldn't be able to talk about.

[Squirrelbanes]

So you admit that you were here only for off topic discussion ;> ? Why bump a flame fest when you can start new topic about those things? And.. I'm not offended oO, I'm more like.. you know.. "sigh".

Well, it was quite civil...not a flame fest. But it was side-topics relating to instanced raiding. Sure they've been discussed before...but it's still interesting
And anyway...it's not will, it have them...it's should whole other kettle of fish lol. But the short answer is an emphatic no.
Anet don't want them, end of. Still...I like talking about the withertos and the whyfors

Chill your nerdrage. This game is still in production. If you think that what the developers have said won't change over time, you're deluding yourself.

Yh...it's not going in. There's absolutely no scope for instanced raiding in the game release. It's the why......

[Blznsmri]

Chill your nerdrage. This game is still in production. If you think that what the developers have said won't change over time, you're deluding yourself.

It's actually in beta testing now, meaning that most of the things (if not all) that they've decided to implement in GW2 are already in and aren't likely to change at all. Seeing as how they haven't made any sort of announcement on the implementation of EQ-WoW raid content (which would be a pretty fucking big deal and they wouldn't hide it), it's safe to assume, and I use that term lightly, that there will be no Raids in Guild Wars 2 at this time or anytime in the future.

[heyvid21]

It's actually in beta testing now, meaning that most of the things (if not all) that they've decided to implement in GW2 are already in and aren't likely to change at all. Seeing as how they haven't made any sort of announcement on the implementation of EQ-WoW raid content (which would be a pretty fucking big deal and they wouldn't hide it), it's safe to assume, and I use that term lightly, that there will be no Raids in Guild Wars 2 at this time or anytime in the future.

Raids in the traditional sense, sure. But as far as outdoor raid bosses, that anyone can group up (or not group up) and take down together are also considered raid bosses.

[Squirrelbanes]

Raids in the traditional sense, sure. But as far as outdoor raid bosses, that anyone can group up (or not group up) and take down together are also considered raid bosses.

Creepjack was referring to ANet's decision to not include instanced raids in the traditional MMO sense. Blznsmri is just backing that up.
And Anet already do have world bosses...
The distinction is in the instanced part

[Mercadi]

I only like raiding because it brings a guild together, we know each others preferences and what to expect from each other after so much time spent together. I do hope there are good incentives for guild team formation and existence in GW2. Because I'd definitely want to be a part of a strong hardcore(ish) guild there, once I become accustomed to the game mechanics.

Edit: Seems that I'm late to the party. Oh well.

[Lucky_]

Those of you thinking that DEs can be made hard should really re-watch the video linked a couple of pages ago. It debunks this argument really well.

P.S. Don't feed the rage troll.

[Maarius]

I only like raiding because it brings a guild together, we know each others preferences and what to expect from each other after so much time spent together. I do hope there are good incentives for guild team formation and existence in GW2. Because I'd definitely want to be a part of a strong hardcore(ish) guild there, once I become accustomed to the game mechanics.

Edit: Seems that I'm late to the party. Oh well.

well
-) only if you are in a guild with exactly 10 or 25 people
-) only if all of these people have grinded long enough to be on the same level
-) only if all take a certain role other than play the class which they really want to play

seems kind of restricting to me
in GW2:

-) you take all of your guild out in the fields
-) every event scales to your number.
e.g.
you have a 14 man guild
-) Team A (7 guys) take on the southern queensdale-events that lead to the summoning of a big raidlike boss
-) Team B (7 guys) take on the western queensdale-events that lead to the summoning of the same boss
-) Team A&B meet at the boss and 14 people fight an epic battle

-) no one gets excluded
-) if someone has to leave, no problem. Events simply scale down a bit.
-) if someone logs on and want's to join... no problem again

GW2 is the ultimate guild game if you ask me.




If you want the harder content, simply go to Orr. Or take on the 5man-explorable modes. 2x5 teams is not very different than 1x10 team, the difference is:
-) 5 man dungeons can be designed much harder... each of the players becomes more important
-) no dependancy on a single player... everyone dies for his mistakes himself, there is no "why didn't you heal me 1111!!!
-) no one can lean back and run a rotation, while watching "2 and a half men" simularily. You won't believe how often I experienced this in other games (DDs)

In GW2 you can't outgear a dungeon, so they stay hard.

If Arthas would be a GW2-Boss he would be equally hard today, as he was at release. The 85er players would be scaled back to the lv.80 dungeon level and their gear too.

[Deleted]

Those of you thinking that DEs can be made hard should really re-watch the video linked a couple of pages ago. It debunks this argument really well.

P.S. Don't feed the rage troll.

First, DEs took the place of the quests. So.. they are need to be easy. I'm yet to find a game where questing is hard. WoW is a great example how quests are just dead easy.

As for large elite DEs (big bosses), you do realize that DEs available at shows were heavily downscaled so people can go through the whole chain easily? That's official and confirmed, so actually you argument holds no value.

Dynamic events are divided between:
- simple chains that replaced questing. They are easy, simple and are the "engine" of the game.
and
- large elite DEs where you have to spend quite substantial amount of time and team effort to trigger the main boss fight. Like I said earlier they were toned down at the shows so everyone could see the whole cycle. Saying those things will be easy is just plain wrong.

[Maarius]

As for large elite DEs (big bosses), you do realize that DEs available at shows were heavily downscaled so people can go through the whole chain easily? That's official and confirmed, so actually you argument holds no value.

Dynamic events are divided between:
- simple chains that replaced questing. They are easy, simple and are the "engine" of the game.
and
- large elite DEs where you have to spend quite substantial amount of time and team effort to trigger the main boss fight. Like I said earlier they were toned down at the shows so everyone could see the whole cycle. Saying those things will be easy is just plain wrong.

not only that,
-) there were several developers around during those boss-encounters. They ensured that the event would be successful in those demos. So a organized group is probably very important, as are casual players that do a certain amount of damage.
(take a look at raids in other mmos: the tank is required to do the hard part, the dps are only doing damage mostly)

-) downscaling was deactivated in the demo from what I heard.
source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jff4Wk5wZfE

[Blznsmri]

Those of you thinking that DEs can be made hard should really re-watch the video linked a couple of pages ago. It debunks this argument really well.

P.S. Don't feed the rage troll.

So, you admit that you didn't know that those encounters were down-scaled for the Demos so that people won't be hitting their heads against a steel reinforced wall in a game they've never played before.


Well, there goes your argument.

[Beefsquatch]

I have a question regarding DE's. Mainly the elite, large scale ones. How exactly can you communicate with one another easily? Like, the video with the undead dragon. You need to take his bone walls down, fix the turrets and charge up the main cannon while his bone wall is down so he can be killed. How would you say "need more over to the turrets" or "need help taking the bone wall down" etc. Would you have to type it in general chat, is there some kind of ventrilo like feature available in the game? Just trying to figure out how people would be able to efficiently cooperate with one another in this environment.

[Lucky_]

So, you admit that you didn't know that those encounters were down-scaled for the Demos so that people won't be hitting their heads against a steel reinforced wall in a game they've never played before.


Well, there goes your argument.

Gotta say, you just defined strawman. You threw all of my arguments away, invented one that you liked, pretended I said something to justify it and then claimed that my argument is false based on above.

Here's some evening reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument


Now go read the relevant posts just a few hours ago in this thread and watch video linked by Kouki, which re-iterates the arguments.

[Blznsmri]

I have a question regarding DE's. Mainly the elite, large scale ones. How exactly can you communicate with one another easily? Like, the video with the undead dragon. You need to take his bone walls down, fix the turrets and charge up the main cannon while his bone wall is down so he can be killed. How would you say "need more over to the turrets" or "need help taking the bone wall down" etc. Would you have to type it in general chat, is there some kind of ventrilo like feature available in the game? Just trying to figure out how people would be able to efficiently cooperate with one another in this environment.

That's to be determined. I don't think they'll have a voice chat client (like the one in WoW), but what's going on in the fight will be displayed visibly (like in the Tequatl (sp?) fight there will be in game announcements as to the state of the bone walls, engineers and asura cannon). That's just how I imagine things happening.

[Lucky_]

I have a question regarding DE's. Mainly the elite, large scale ones. How exactly can you communicate with one another easily? Like, the video with the undead dragon. You need to take his bone walls down, fix the turrets and charge up the main cannon while his bone wall is down so he can be killed. How would you say "need more over to the turrets" or "need help taking the bone wall down" etc. Would you have to type it in general chat, is there some kind of ventrilo like feature available in the game? Just trying to figure out how people would be able to efficiently cooperate with one another in this environment.

I imagine it's going to go in the same way LFR does. A lot of bitching, moaning, some people trying to play leaders and tell others what to do, some following them, some ignoring them, some actively resisting the orders and so on.

[Maarius]

So we will have some strange people messing around, hitting the boss by spamming some frostbolt. They have high APM, therefore have enough contribution and get loot. But they are confusing my group and lowering my FPS with their models and spell effects. How is it fun or good, and in any way better than clean instanced fight?

tackhisis again you learned nothing from your ban, constantly ignoring what people trying to explain...

in standard raids you have 8 of 10 people who do nothing else than running a rotation. DPS take their position and spam DPS skills, most don't care about AoE because there are healers. So that would be the superior way for you? You might read my other arguments in the last few posts to learn something about the game... but I think you don't want to learn anything anyway.