Why is our Mage's dps so low? H Yor'sahj

[Deleted]

Layuth may have a point. It's not that all women are bad, it's that they should all play healers or hunters. Maybe cute little kitty cat druids. It says so in the bible, look it up.

Posts like this are hardly appreciated, especially as a lot of women play this game, and a lot of them raid at a high standard.

[Hanto]

Healers, feral druids, hunters. It's all in the King James Bible.

Actually one of them IS a healer with her main spec, but as a Shaman she has enhancement as her OS and usually fights myself and a warrior for top DPS on the fights that we require her to DPS.

---------- Post added 2011-12-21 at 02:32 PM ----------

Posts like this are hardly appreciated, especially as a lot of women play this game, and a lot of them raid at a high standard.

Agreed. Last time I checked sexist comments are grounds for an infraction, and rightfully so.

[Shaiandra]

As others have said, Living Bomb and Combustion usage make a huge difference, as would spreading Combustion onto adds. Admittedly a great Combustion does require some luck though... but seeing that it doesn't seem like she was saving it for add phases, she probably could have used it more than 4 times due to 4P's reduced cooldown. Dragon's Breath should also probably be used more during AoE situations.

Hm. Attempt #1 had a nice spreaded Combustion that totaled over 1.1 million damage... but only one Combustion in 5 minutes?

And I'm too lazy to look into what sorts of slime abilities you've gotten.. getting a lot of blues might result in low DPS for a while, for example. So might getting a blue and black together, while other DPS classes would shoot up relatively.

[Crocadial]

Its been said, combustion is not being deployed to full effect, take the time to generate an excellent combustion and use impact to spread it to the maximum number of faceless adds, also help all of your dps by hugging the ooze if there is still faceless ones that survive till then to allow cleaving and dot spreading.

Back to back blues can hurt, make sure you are handling them correctly, also be sure to use mana gems and evocate smartly.

Suggest to her to use a mod to assist in creating good combustions (living bomb fresh, pyroblast crit, critical mass on target)

If this player is not delivering, a kill will be very difficult, fire was made for this kind of fight.

[Jaraco]

I wasnt planning on replying to any threads this morning but i really felt like this mage is totally hopeless so i will

earlier in the thread i read someone saying that the stat priority for mages was something like hit>haste>crit>mastery, now while this is true it prob worth saying it is a bit more like this hit to 17%> haste to 2005> crit mastery> haste over 2005> hit

in saying this prob the most important thing is getting hast to 2005, now when i look at your mage's gear what i see is 1809 haste, however your mage also has the 4 piece (+500 haste) which means she can go down to 1505 haste, now look at her gear:

Neck: haste>crit
bracers: haste>crit
legs: haste>hit
ring: haste>crit

above is a few options of how she can drop some haste (not a perfect way to reforge) she should also be able to find a way to get closer to 17.00% hit

Didnt look at the logs but she should ensure that she combust spreads black ooze adds and with 4 pc combust should be up every time there is an add phase.

It is prob worth noting that your raid doesn't have ideal raid buffs for mages however that fight is so geared towards mages it shouldnt matter.

on a side note your rogue is doing it so wrong, your raid setup is insane for aoe therefore he should be combat (I am the world rank 1 rogue on yor'sahj 25man hm)

This guy is wrong about the haste, so take no notice in it. 2005 haste is the better option even with 2pc.
He is, however, right about the rogue. Your rogue and arms warrior are what caught my eye the most when browsing your logs, not the mage in question.

My advice is to listen to Jaiie, he knows what he's talking about.

[kaelleria]

Our best attempt was the 9 minute attempt where we got yorsahj down to ~25%... With the enrage looming, I'm probably going to be making posts like this in several other forums as well...

We were using the mana void trick, so mana was never really an issue unless we screwed it up... Maybe she doesn't have a dot timer.

[Therdin]

http://wowreforge.com/US/Bloodhoof/M...3030----30--53 <<<here is a link to the best way to reforge. (this is not going to result in a huge dps gain, but it needs to be fixed)

In terms of rotation, she uses combustion wrong, downloading an addon like combustion helper will help her track when to use it (i.e when LB/pyro/ignite are all up on the target)
Her living bomb uptime is bad, 72% is to low. Make sure she has a way to easily track LB on the boss. I use mage fever
WTF is she doing spec'd only 1/3 in burning soul?

In terms of the yor'sahj encounter:

She needs to hold on on using combustion until the first round of oozes pop, if there is no black go ahead and combust as soon as she can. If there is a black ooze hold of fon combustion tell they come and and impact spread to them
Armor dancing between mage and molten in the fight is pretty crucial to dps, if you are leaving blue up make sure to jump to mage armor black phase coming switch to mage armor so you can aoe like a mad man... err women.

[MangoSpirit]

get mage nuggets. it posts what ur combustion would be. my GF uses it, so im not much help on how it works. but she gets hella deeps as fire. and she says its all cuz of that addon.

[Deleted]

Apart of what everyone said about combustion, if you look at just the graph of the 4th try you can see her damage dropping really low right after BL ends.
I'm guessing you had a mana void up and instead of just using a mana gem and arcane torrent she sat and used evocation to the full duration which is a waste because she was at the 32-24k range before that.

[Shaiandra]

I'd buy that, but the warlock was higher dps than her. In phases where mana voids are present, she can still do damage even with 0 mana. Scorch spam and use of pyroblast procs are still quite a lot better than standing there helplessly. She would make that loss of damage up on the black oozes' adds easily. The problem, unfortunately, is not having impact spread ignite/pyroblast dot/living bomb/combustion to the adds in addition to blast wave, flamestrike, and dragons breath.

Warlocks have Lifetap. They can't be OOM more than a couple seconds, tops. ;p

I know a Mage can Scorch and fish for Pyros even with no mana, but really, if she was caught without Evocation and is stuck Scorching while the others are Hellfiring and Bladestorming, well, yeah, her DPS will suffer relatively.

Oh, but another thing... if I'm not mistaken, she's attempted to apply the Impact debuff only 3 times during the 4th attempt. Obviously all targets are immune to stun, but that means DOTs were spread at most three times, right?..

[Zethious]

Clear cut plain and simple... she has very little knowledge of her class. She does not theory craft, research her class, or attempt to practice at all. Her combustions are TERRIBLE.

Compare her links, to our mage: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vy...=11346&e=11929

And her transmog set is ugly.

[Berracus]

I don't see her reforge terribly wrong. Assuming one of the shammies is dropping Wrath of Air totem, she has all the haste buffs (DI, 3% NP, 5% WoA totem) plus the T13 4pc. With all that haste she can even drop below 1505 rating and still get the extra Combustion tick. What I do see is that LB has only 72% uptime when it should be near 100%, also from what i can tell she only used Flame Orb 4 times over a 9 minute fight. Flame Orb has the highest dps per execution time so it has to be used on cd. And then there's obviously the problem with combustion: This fight is awesome for fire mages with 4pc since Combustion can be up for every add wave, but having 3-6k ticks is inexcusable. Always have LB up and wait for a big pyro crit to use it and you should have 12-24k ticks easily and if she's lucky even more

[Anyankha]

get mage nuggets. it posts what ur combustion would be. my GF uses it, so im not much help on how it works. but she gets hella deeps as fire. and she says its all cuz of that addon.

Is that one better than combustion helper?

[Brewswami]

Don't listen to 90% of the advice that has been given on this thread. First off, her gear/gemming/reforging is great, no need for changes. With 4p you only need ~1505 haste to get the extra tick with combustion b/c you get 500 more with the 2p stolen time buff. To the person saying haste is the best stat regardless, that in some cases is incorrect. When I sim my character, haste actually is the worst stat, even worse then mastery because I am over that plateau. She should sim her character herself to find out her own results because there is no correct answer to give to everyone, everyone's results vary. But tbh, reforging is not the issue here so let's move on. Real quick though I would recommend she changes and drops Improved fire Blast in favor of 3/3 burning soul.

As for her rotation and whether she is using her spells correctly, the things I see as an issue are low combustion dmg, low living bomb up time and not spreading with impact enough. Each combustion on single target non gimmick fights should do between 200-300k ave. On a fight like Yor'sahj depending on how many black aoe phases you get, it should be close to 10% of your overall dmg, instead of 4%.(this is all for 10m btw, in 25m it can be like 20-30% of your dmg) As some of you idiots are referencing logs from 25 mages. Here is another example of how ridiculous we can be in 25m even before execute phase+BL http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7297&e=7526. So this info is not relevant.

I am not sure if she uses any mods to determine the best time to combustion but deciding when to use combustion isn't an easy task and because it is so essential to being a fire mage with 4p t13, she should look into trying new things out because what she is doing now isn't producing great numbers. What I use is MyBigIgnite: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/mybigignite. Combustion helper is also a good tool.

I would also recommend having her combat text, like MikScrollingBattleText: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/mik-...ng-battle-text, only show crits and have it set so it only tracks fireball and pyroblast. That way when a 50k+ crit shows up, she will know that it might be time to use combustion. You will want to wait until the ignite tick shows up on your Mybigignite mod and you will want to be aware of any haste procs you have at that time. For example, using combustion with her trinket Insignia of the Corrupted Mind's proc of 2904 extra haste would give her an extra tick from that combustion. So while it's generally only recommended to use combustion with a 20k+ ignite tick rolling, if that proc was about to expire and the ignite tick was 15k I would use it before it falls off. Speaking of falling off, it is challenging to notice your haste procs, amt of ignite rolling, how long you have left on Living Bomb, and how long that short 4 sec ignite is left on the target. If Ignite falls off when she hits combustion then that 300k+ combustion will turn into a sub 100k combustion. I try not to take too many chances with my combustions and only hit it when there is at least 1+ seconds left on ignite.

So I'm curious how she tracks the amount of the ignite ticks and duration on her current. Scorchio! 2 is what I use. Scorchio! 2+MyBigIgnite is a very popular combo but you can get very simular results with just using Combustion Helper, it will do both jobs. It's mostly personal preference.

As for spreading to the adds, she will want to use blast wave to almost guarantee an impact proc before she does her combustion. In situations where the 2nd set of adds are spawning right when the oozes are spawning and the whole group needs to move together she should be focusing on the ooze like everyone else but throwing in impacts to spread to the adds. I sometimes save combustion for this 2nd set instead of using the first because if done correctly all the adds will still be affected and there are less ppl using cd's to kill them at that time. Spreading ignite before living bomb even falls off can be a dps increase depending on how large the crit was and whether or not any of the adds have the pyro dot on that currently. Aoe'ing as fire can be a daunting task but even if you are only an average player like myself, it is so op right now that she should be the top contributor towards the forgotten ones.

Here is my log of our best attempt on this fight. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10040&e=10657 We would have actually killed it if I didn't fat finger Time Warp when we were running out to kill and ooze. The whole Time Warp was almost completely wasted and we hit enrage with 7% of his health left . So one thing I noticed is our raid dps is almost 2k higher then yours and that is without a Time Warp. So imo the reason your behind the enrage timer has more to do than your mage's performance.

P.S= Mage Nuggets, CombustionHelper, MyBigIgnite, they generally all do the same thing, she should extensively try all 3 of them separately and decide for herself which is best. The best advice is gained from within.

[DreamSpyre]

Definitely go with Brewswami's post for the most part, the only difference I would point out is definitely, definitely Simulate her individually in regards to her Haste breakpoints. I found it to be far, far better to still manually hit the haste plateau and use the 2pc for haste beyond that in my sims, and it resulted in far better dps in game as well. But for me, as a Goblin this was the case, Mileage may vary. MageNuggets is my personal favorite as far as tracking Ignite sizes and timers, because it gives me a nice visual cue when an ignite appears with a pretty damn accurate display of it's damage.

Have her increase her living bomb uptime, ( A DotTimer is crucial if she doesn't have one ) and follow the tips pointed out throughout the thread in order to get better combustions. Also, In comparing her log to mine on the same fight, I'm noticing that I have a LOT more casts of almost every spell, so it would seem to me that she's spending quite a bit of time during the fight not casting anything at all. If she can weave more spells into her rotation, her dps will pick up noticably.

In particular on Yor'sahj, My guild had absolutely no trouble with killing adds off quickly, even without me spreading combustion to them, so I was Combusting pretty much on CD instead of holding it for black phases, if you're having trouble meeting enrage timer and the adds aren't that big a deal, she may want to try that. Know though, that if she does she'll never come close to matching the other ranked mages on DPS who are all spreading combustion.

[Mercadi]

Using reforge optimizers (when gearing looks already good for the most part) would not help her as much as changing a play style.
What I suggest is looking at the top mage logs and try to think of the ways she could copy their damage breakdown.

[Swizzle]

Alright, I'm trying to drive home for the holidays, and since I don't want my phone buzzing with spam reports the whole way, I'm locking this.