"Skill" System is kind of insulting isn't it?

[Stormcall]

Go spreadsheet it as i did. Fanat gives such a small boost to party members its not worth the massive loss in skill. A +3 Summon ammy with fcr is all i needed. Haveing mages at 20 makes them wtf pwn any physical immunes and the psn nova and other psn skills do absolutely dick against ubers thanks to all thier resists. This was built for ubers pure and simple and in the process is able to take down any other boss in game.

Damage+IAS+attack rating=faster swings that hit more often. THIS is what makes it better than Leoric, not just the actual +damage itself. I don't need to spreadsheet it, I've RAN with both weapons. Beast was better. Physical immunes, Amp Damage+CE wtf pwns them much faster than mages at lvl 20, along with killing basically everything else in the room too. And my build kills ubers just fine(though I usually kill them with my auradin, since I don't have to spend time assembling an army first, just walk in the portal and destroy), can also take down any other boss in the game, but because I didn't spend 20 points on mages(fyi, very, very few summoners max mages, the other guy was right, most go between 1-10, far more of them max or pump CE instead, even if they're not nova hybrids like mine) I can also destroy people in PvP games, people who would tear apart an ordinary summoner(wind druids and smart barbs for example).

[Zeta333]

Damage+IAS+attack rating=faster swings that hit more often. THIS is what makes it better than Leoric, not just the actual +damage itself. I don't need to spreadsheet it, I've RAN with both weapons. Beast was better. Physical immunes, Amp Damage+CE wtf pwns them much faster than mages at lvl 20, along with killing basically everything else in the room too. And my build kills ubers just fine(though I usually kill them with my auradin, since I don't have to spend time assembling an army first, just walk in the portal and destroy), can also take down any other boss in the game, but because I didn't spend 20 points on mages(fyi, very, very few summoners max mages, the other guy was right, most go between 1-10, far more of them max or pump CE instead, even if they're not nova hybrids like mine) I can also destroy people in PvP games, people who would tear apart an ordinary summoner(wind druids and smart barbs for example).

Well the difference between us is i didnt pvp. I built mine soley for PVE, Rushing, MFing and ubers, PVP requires different builds. Go solo ubers with those unpure specs and come tell me how it goes.

[luedieniel]

Ok so let use this for the sake of comparison with the new system.
In this build we have:
2 passive,
4 active

plus all the "one point" stuff we have to reach the spells but those does not really count in the end.
And then we have 4 free points.

Now we will have:
6 active ability
3 passive

We have to chose both of those from a wide range of skills that are also giving us the chance to "hybridize" our character, something that as Friendzie pointed out was limited due to sinerfgies in the end.

What about those 4 point? Those can be interpreted as the current Rune system, do we want more slow? more power? a slightly different effect? an area of effect? fire damage? poison damage? depending on the skill we have all those choice.

In reality you have far more than just 6 actives and heres the list of skills you will be using, regardless of some being 1 pointers:
out of the 10 curses, you will be using the following:
Amplify Damage
Dim Vision
Decrepify
Lower resist.

The actual amount of skills you use would thus go up to:
4 curses
3 summons(possibly 4) - skeleton, magi, iron/clay golem
1 bone skill - bone armor
and the passives remain the same: Skel mastery and Summ resist.
so you're actually using 8-9 actives for actual gameplay.

Other than that I suppose you could consider the spare points the rune system,"how do I want to alter the build to fit my playstyle better?"

Im sorry but what? You always maxed out magi. Iv never put any skill points into PNB tree when using a skellymancer. If you get hit to the point where you need bone shield 9.98 times out of 10 your dead anyways.

Max out
Mastery
Summon Skelly
Summon Mage
Summon resist - till it hits the point that it takes like 3 levels to gain 1%, was always my last so easy to see.
Fire Golem
get decrep and amp damage and 1 one point into revive and thats it. Any additional skills golem mastery or revive, doesnt matter.

This build can solo ubers and any other part of the game with no problems. It relys on a Might merc with pride polearm. And no you dont use a beast axe either you use an Arm of leoric due to the massive amount of skill bonus's it gives. Forgot to mention you should never be getting hit as a skellymancer when fighting boss's due to have enigma. If you are you need to learn to play the class better.

The boneshield is strictly for backup, and enigma is quite expensive, up until you can afford it, boneshield is actually usefull, it is simply as a extra safety for hell.
Enigma however is only really usefull for MFing as you will not be getting hit by bosses even without it, drop a claygolem down on the boss and it won't be able to touch you.

Aside from that, you don't want to use the firegolem at all, depending on what you're doing you'll want to either use a iron golem made out of a Insight weapon.
The build relies on having a offensive or combat A2 merc equipped with a infinity OR insight polearm equipped(If you do not want to use the iron golem, go with insight.)

This build can solo ubers, you'll be using primarily +skill equipment for it.
Homunculus, arm of leoric, enigma-runed armor, harlequins crest, optional gloves, optional belt (tho I prefer thundergods vigor) and marrowwalk as boots.

You might always be maxing out magis but that doesn't mean that theres no other viable way of playing a skelemancer.
And if you need enigma to avoid getting hit, you might want to roll a sorc instead :/


Also as stormcall points out in reply to your post, you can pull these builds off easily by adding in corpse explosion into the mix aswell rather than spending tons and tons of points into magi.


All this said tho, I'm not a huge fan of the way they've made the skills in D3 and quite honestly I would've been happier with a talent tree in D2/WoW style but lets see what they can make of this before bickering about it.

[Sharde]

if it has not been posted yet:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

every single complaint of a dumbed down d3 is explained in this thread. a must read for every d2 player i would say.

d3 is superior to d2 in every single way imo.

[Raizuda]

The fear I have is that the new system divorces older gamers like myself from the "Journey of the Hero" aspect that gets you emotionally invested on some level. The mythos, pathos, and excitement of the story and choices made defined previous games and were reflected in game design and gameplay. Perseus received awesome gifts from the gods but they never defined him!

I just want to feel that way again. Like my investment has created an epic and unique character in addition to awesome gameplay. Before you dismiss me with the "doesn't get/didn't read it" counter-argument, know that I read the above thread you linked and it was fantastic. My concerns still stand.

So there are more options, greater bonuses to be had, and customization can be modified over and over with enough time and money in its various forms. That solves a long-term revenue problem and replayability problem on a financial level, but does it feel epic like D1 and D2?

I don't want it to feel soulless (lol Diablo pun) like I'm upgrading from Iron Man 1.01 to v1.02 and swapping this weapon for that to get to the next level until I just don't care and the journey is nil due to game design. Is the quality there? I guess only veterans of the series who are beta testers can give a response based on experience. I don't want this game to have the equivalent emotional bump to swapping out an old graphics card for a new one on a gaming rig. I hope someone gets what I'm trying to convey and passes it on. As always, replies are appreciated and encouraged.

[Nenavn]

If all skills really are equally viable, that's great news. It would be great if a beta tester could confirm this.

As a beta tester, I can confirm that most skills are viable and usually interesting. Compared to Diablo 2, a game we all love dearly, you can have a skill without having to spend points on perks and such. In fact, when you level up to a certain level, you'll unlock a new skill rather than having to buy it. The only catch is that you can have a maximum of 2 to 6 skills at a time depending on your level.