How to beat Hagara Heroic on 25 man

[Deleted]

I'm getting sick and tired of these 10 vs 25 discussions.

We did one night of progress to get the 25m hc kill, then we went with some mains/alts to do 10m hc kill and we 3 shotted it. IMO the healing is a lot more relax in 10m hc and the dmg taken and dps requirements are quite lower aswell. The chaining on 10m is a lot easier aswell if you know how to do it. Looking at wowprogress 430 (25m) and 779 (10m) kills, it kinda hints into that direction aswell.

[Ceria]

Yeah I agree with that completely. I'm not one to fan the flames of the 10 vs 25 deal as they both have harder and simpler encounters as it's IMPOSSIBLE to tune for both raid sizes and have them within the same range. It just doesn't scale right and you can't just expect to tune down HP or whatever and think that they will be equally difficult or simple.

OT: I for one would really love to see the Ulduar style of hardmodes. Those were fun and you could actually see yourself making progress on fights like Freya and Yogg.

Ulduar Hardmodes?

You mean where most of them were just "Do the fight again, but FASTER!"? Oh yeah I miss those. Heaps.

[Deleted]

I'm getting sick and tired of these 10 vs 25 discussions.

We did one night of progress to get the 25m hc kill, then we went with some mains/alts to do 10m hc kill and we 3 shotted it. IMO the healing is a lot more relax in 10m hc and the dmg taken and dps requirements are quite lower aswell. The chaining on 10m is a lot easier aswell if you know how to do it. Looking at wowprogress 430 (25m) and 779 (10m) kills, it kinda hints into that direction aswell.

You didn't bring enough healers if the healing was "hard" on 25m, try 8 next time, you won't hit the enrage anyway...

Fact:
You get 3 ice lances on both 10m and 25m
You can bring 2 tanks on 25m, focused assult becomes a joke
You have 25 people to spread the lighthing, it is not hard to run to a designated area, while this may be true for 10m aswell calling 25m harder is wrong.
Frost phase you can stand in the middle and heal without mana worries because you can bring so many healers and healing rain, efflo, holy rad and other stack aoe heal, aoe defence abilities really get to shine, in 10m you have maybe 5-6 people in the middle.
The ice tombs can simply be aoe'ed down on 25m because there's 6 of them, killing 3 targets with aoe spells is generally a waste in 10m.
Dps is not an issue because of the burn phases on either differculty.

Oh and I can post random stats aswell. 430 25m guilds have killed hagara hc that's 33% of all 25m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) meanwhile only 10% of 10m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) have killed hagara hc.

Morchok is about equal on both differculties (can faceroll with a trillion healers).
Zon, Yor and Ultra are easier on 10m.
Hagara is easier on 25m.

[Deja Thoris]

I'm getting sick and tired of these 10 vs 25 discussions.

We did one night of progress to get the 25m hc kill, then we went with some mains/alts to do 10m hc kill and we 3 shotted it. IMO the healing is a lot more relax in 10m hc and the dmg taken and dps requirements are quite lower aswell. The chaining on 10m is a lot easier aswell if you know how to do it. Looking at wowprogress 430 (25m) and 779 (10m) kills, it kinda hints into that direction aswell.

Learn how to do statistics. If the number of 25 man guilds was the same as 10 mans yur stats would hold true.

[Ryme]

The damage on Lightning phase in 25 man is surprising lower than 10 man, it's brutal in 10 with only two or three healers. Thanks for the strategy though guys, we'll put it to good work

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

You didn't bring enough healers if the healing was "hard" on 25m, try 8 next time, you won't hit the enrage anyway...

Fact:
You get 3 ice lances on both 10m and 25m
You can bring 2 tanks on 25m, focused assult becomes a joke
You have 25 people to spread the lighthing, it is not hard to run to a designated area, while this may be true for 10m aswell calling 25m harder is wrong.
Frost phase you can stand in the middle and heal without mana worries because you can bring so many healers and healing rain, efflo, holy rad and other stack aoe heal, aoe defence abilities really get to shine, in 10m you have maybe 5-6 people in the middle.
The ice tombs can simply be aoe'ed down on 25m because there's 6 of them, killing 3 targets with aoe spells is generally a waste in 10m.
Dps is not an issue because of the burn phases on either differculty.

Oh and I can post random stats aswell. 430 25m guilds have killed hagara hc that's 33% of all 25m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) meanwhile only 10% of 10m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) have killed hagara hc.

Morchok is about equal on both differculties (can faceroll with a trillion healers).
Zon, Yor and Ultra are easier on 10m.
Hagara is easier on 25m.

Theorycrafting is all well and good, to a limit. That poster was speaking from actual experience, though. Actual in-game execution trumps theorycrafting.

[Paskgotsheal]

I'm getting sick and tired of these 10 vs 25 discussions.

We did one night of progress to get the 25m hc kill, then we went with some mains/alts to do 10m hc kill and we 3 shotted it. IMO the healing is a lot more relax in 10m hc and the dmg taken and dps requirements are quite lower aswell. The chaining on 10m is a lot easier aswell if you know how to do it. Looking at wowprogress 430 (25m) and 779 (10m) kills, it kinda hints into that direction aswell.

Except there's 8 times as many 10 man guilds as 25. Why don't you look at percents which is a much more accurate picture of difficulty.

---------- Post added 2012-01-01 at 06:39 PM ----------

You didn't bring enough healers if the healing was "hard" on 25m, try 8 next time, you won't hit the enrage anyway...

Fact:
You get 3 ice lances on both 10m and 25m
You can bring 2 tanks on 25m, focused assult becomes a joke
You have 25 people to spread the lighthing, it is not hard to run to a designated area, while this may be true for 10m aswell calling 25m harder is wrong.
Frost phase you can stand in the middle and heal without mana worries because you can bring so many healers and healing rain, efflo, holy rad and other stack aoe heal, aoe defence abilities really get to shine, in 10m you have maybe 5-6 people in the middle.
The ice tombs can simply be aoe'ed down on 25m because there's 6 of them, killing 3 targets with aoe spells is generally a waste in 10m.
Dps is not an issue because of the burn phases on either differculty.

Oh and I can post random stats aswell. 430 25m guilds have killed hagara hc that's 33% of all 25m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) meanwhile only 10% of 10m guilds (that have at least killed morchok hc) have killed hagara hc.

Morchok is about equal on both differculties (can faceroll with a trillion healers).
Zon, Yor and Ultra are easier on 10m.
Hagara is easier on 25m.

correct except zon is harder on 10 then 25, mainly due to how many 1 soakers you can have on the ball and the fact you can bring two tanks if you want to.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Except there's 8 times as many 10 man guilds as 25. Why don't you look at percents which is a much more accurate picture of difficulty.

---------- Post added 2012-01-01 at 06:39 PM ----------



correct except zon is harder on 10 then 25, mainly due to how many 1 soakers you can have on the ball and the fact you can bring two tanks if you want to.

As I said earlier, the problem with statements like this is that they state a fact and then suppose a conclusion based on that fact. Here, you see "25 mans can have additional single soakers on Zon'ozz [which is true] therefore 25 man is easier than 10 man." First of all, this is theorycrafting, which hasn't been considered to be strong evidence. Second, which is related to the first point, it focuses on just one thing and then expands it into some general statement about the difficulty of an encounter on both difficulties.

The only way to really grasp the difficulty difference is to actually do both of them. Otherwise, you're just blowing a lot of hot air for the most part. Do Zonozz on 25 man heroic and then report back to us which you felt was more difficult (unless you have, already. That wasn't made clear).

[Zinnin]

You can actually stand in the center of her hit box on lightning phase so you can chain strait through her, instead of going around.

[Deleted]

I officially hate your "fhfails" chat

[Paskgotsheal]

As I said earlier, the problem with statements like this is that they state a fact and then suppose a conclusion based on that fact. Here, you see "25 mans can have additional single soakers on Zon'ozz [which is true] therefore 25 man is easier than 10 man." First of all, this is theorycrafting, which hasn't been considered to be strong evidence. Second, which is related to the first point, it focuses on just one thing and then expands it into some general statement about the difficulty of an encounter on both difficulties.

The only way to really grasp the difficulty difference is to actually do both of them. Otherwise, you're just blowing a lot of hot air for the most part. Do Zonozz on 25 man heroic and then report back to us which you felt was more difficult (unless you have, already. That wasn't made clear).

Except doing a fight after doing it before on either difficultly completely taints your opinion of the encounter, it makes your opinion completely invalid. This is why you should just look at the statistics of the fights, its usually the best indicator of which fights are close to the same, or harder or easier.

[adamzz]

Except doing a fight after doing it before on either difficultly completely taints your opinion of the encounter, it makes your opinion completely invalid. This is why you should just look at the statistics of the fights, its usually the best indicator of which fights are close to the same, or harder or easier.

This is true.
If you do 25man and kill 8/8HC and then take 10 of these raid members and do 10man, you will most likely 1-5 shot every fight because you already know them, if you would've progressed on 10man from the start it would be totally different and you would think 25man is easy when you decide to do that.

[Byrthor]

"Don'y Jinx it"....oh so true.