Is the DK/Mage/Druid/Rogue token class pool too overpopulated to be fair?

[Deleted]

I guess it just comes down to sheer luck. My case is not in regards to LFR, but to our 10-man team. We have a 2 druids, a mage, a rogue and me the death knight. On top of that, our token group has dropped the LEAST. To paint a picture, we have a paladin and warrior tank in normal/heroic 4-piece, and a shaman in 4-piece heroic, as well as a few people in 2-set normal/heroic combinations. In my token group, we have 3 people with 2-set, each of them having 1 piece from LFR.

RNG is RNG man, I've had similar experiences in 10m with a severe shortage of Conq tokens and yet so many Vanqs that people had 4pc main spec, 4pc off spec and we still had enough Vanqs left over for me to fill one of my bags with them. I still have those Vanqs in my void storage for shits and giggles.

Aa for LFR, you guys gotta realize that while it's quite possible to make them better raid comps, that would increase the queue times as well. A balance needs to be struck and shitty comps will happen. Just stop relying on LFR for gear, same as BH. I do it and it's nice if I get something but never enter the place with your hopes too high. Also with how fast queues are now, if you don't like the comp then LEAVE. Reqeue later, you have 7 dats.

[Loriginalediscipline]

no

10chars

[Deleted]

Boy I wish I had your luck, Oh how I love doing LFR on my rogue and then looking at grid to see an over flow of red orange and blue.

15 vanq users
3 con users
7 prot

And No matter how many times I requeue, I always get put in the group with 10+ vanq needers. Even if they have the 4set, if the need button is there, believe they will roll for it.

[Deleted]

One of the issues with the current state of the tokens is not only, how many classes are rolling on them or how popular they are. It's also about what role the different classes can fill and what classes are popular in raiding.

Both Prot and Holy Paladin are very strong, Healing Priests are strong and popular, while Warlocks aren't that popular. Shamans in general wasn't a very strong class in T12 and many guilds would rather go without one. Using a Prot and a dps Warrior would be a big loss buff wise and Hunters can only perform as dps.

Arcane Mages in T12 - Nuff said really. Frost DK's in T12 did very well and Blood DK's weren't a weak class. Ferals were probably in the middle, whereas Resto Druids were OP and Balance Druids weren't weak either. Not uncommonly to find 2 Druids in a raid either.

I guess that my point is this:

Paladins: DPS/Tank/Healer = 3
Priests: DPS/Healer = 2
Warlock: DPS = 1

Sum of 6

Warrior: DPS/Tank = 2
Shaman: DPS/Healer = 2
Hunter: DPS = 1

Sum of 5

Mage: DPS = 1
DK: DPS/Tank = 2
Druid: DPS/Healer/Tank = 3
Rogues: DPS = 1

Sum of 7

Mages and Boomkins were eligible for the Legendary in T12 and Rogues are eligible for it in T13. How many Mages was used on World First Spine again?

I don't think it's always been an issue but the last 2 Tiers I too think it's been a bit rough for everyone but Warrior/Shaman/Hunter. Imo it couldn't hurt to re-think the way the tokens are shared with the new Monk class coming.

[Deleted]

This is indeed a problem. In most of the raids I'm in, near 50% of the setup consist of druids, mages and rogues. Everyone has a druid because they're fun, everyone has a mage because they want the 12 legendary and now everyone has a rogue because they want the T13 legendary. I have 3 lvl 85s, guess which classes ...

In my experience the hunter/shaman/warrior token drops most often and it's the set with the least amount of players, whereas the DK/rogue/druid/mage token drops the least often and has the most players.

[Emane]

I can totally see them doing something like armor type tokens in MoP.

Cloth = Priest (2), Mage (1), Warlock (1) = 4
Leather = Druid (3 (4??)), Monk (3 (2??)), Rogue (1) = 7*
Mail = Shaman (3), Hunter (1) = 4
Plate = DK (2), Paladin (3), Warrior (2) = 7

And give a higher dropchance for Leather and Plate. Or make only 2 tokens, Lesser armor = Cloth + Leather, Higher armor = Mail + Plate and you will have the same amount of specs on them.


* Not sure if they will give druids 4 sets or if they keep the set same as it is now with the feral pieces. And if they do the same with monks, if they do to monks as they are with ferals atm, then monk would have 2 sets. 1 healing and 1 tank/dps, or if they will get 1 healing, 1 tank and 1 dps. I guess the later. But it still remains as druids might get 4 pieces, then the "leather" token will be at 8 specs and the lesser armor token will be at 12 vs 11 specs.

Personal, I like that the feral set is a tank and a dps set, as it allows me to tank from time to time with a reforging and regemming (if needed), without having to collect a 2nd set for it.

[Deleted]

They will have to introduce a new armor itemization for monk and druid tanks, otherwise 4 speccs would roll on the same item which is more than any other by far. On a sidenote, rogue tanking anyone?

[Peachy]

while your not lucky on your dk, in LFR my dk has won 2 gloves, 2 legs, and a shoulder token in the same time it took my main that a raid with 3 resets to get 1 piece. like the above posters said with how much each class is played and how many specs they cover it's pretty balanced, rng is just rng.

[magicism]

In an ideal world, with a raid comp of one of every class, it is balanced and the drops are fine. 10 classes split over the 3 tokens and all the websites that indicate drop rates give them the correct drop rates. Using Hagara 10 normal as an example, we can see that there is a 81% chance of tier dropping at all. This is made up of 29% for both conqueror and protector and a 33% chance for the Vanquisher tokens.

Obviously this doesn't cover RNG and the drop rates may be slightly skew in 25 man as well. It also is not dynamic depending on raid comp so yeah it is a bit of a sucky system but in theory under the right circumstances it should be fine.

[Tinykong]

I've done LFR every week on my three 85s I play (Dk, Druid, Mage ) and I've NEVER been in an LFR that had less than 15 people on that token. I've even specifically left groups with 15-20 people on it and come back another time, just to get the same group comp of different players.

The worst one I've been in was 21 people on that token. Everyone and there brother who ever had a rogue brought it back for 4.3 for the legendary, mages are currently the highest single target DPS in the game, Dk tanks got a nice buff this patch, and druids can fill 4 roles. They need to balance the group make ups better, I've been in some groups where a token was left on the boss because no one in the group could even roll on it.

[Kurzior]

Quickly throwing this out for consideration. You should look at the number of different specs on each token, since hybrids frequently fill multiple roles in the same raid. For example, its very possible to have a paladin tank and healer rolling on the same token. Also, for my purpose, dps classes using different primary stats count as multiple specs, for example, a feral dps fills a different role than a balance druid. However, specs within a class using the same gear (rogues/mages/hunters/warlocks) only count as 1 spec.

Vanquisher - 2 tank, 5 dps, 1 healer (8 total)
Protector - 1 tank, 4 dps, 1 healer (6 total)
Conqueror - 1 tank, 2 healer, 3 dps (6 total)

It would make sense to perhaps swap death knights and either warlocks or hunters so that the balance would be 7 vanquisher, 7 conqueror, 6 protector specs, but that's as good as it could get. There is no way to make them all perfectly even, and even if you do, only very specific raid setups will actually result in a 'fair' chance at tokens. Its far more likely you have multiple hybrid classes like druids and paladins in your raid, meaning their token has more competition anyway.

Back to the OP though, I don't think so. I think 2 things happen here. 1 - you have great luck on your paladin. It happens. 2 - you probably don't get 'good' raid setups on your dk. I've seen many times where a single LFR group has 7+ of the same class in the same role. That, to me, is a problem with the LFR system, not token distribution. The best thing I can tell you here is be more patient and try to avoid running in groups that are heavily stacked with your class or token category.

[Ignotum]

Did a LFR last night that had 12 people looking for Conq tokens. One dropped and the rest were Vanq. Randomness is randomness

[TacTican]

Tier tokens in BC had different class combinations with every tier. Then in Wrath they fixed the classes to a specific token and I was really hoping that the combinations would change in Cataclysm. No such luck.

They really need to revisit the BC system where the token classes got shuffled with every tier.

[rielthaskildogg]

Well, I ran the LFR again last night on my Paladin. I managed to get a group for the second half which had 2 or 3 Pally's, 2 or 3 Priests, and 1 Warlock (it changed, but I was always rolling against 4 or 5 others). I won another shoulder piece (used for my tank set) and a 1-H sword, which I swapped for the 2-H. Now after 5 weeks, my Ret set is a 4 Piece set bonus with the Valor chestpiece, and a 390 2-H sword, and I even have the tier helm for my Prot set. My Pally looks friggin awesome, and I'm probably one of the best geared Ret Pally's on my server, even though I barely do real raids with him. I'm certainly not complaining about how easy it is to get the Pally/Priest/Warlock token, but It would be sure nice to have even a piece or 2 on my DK after 5 weeks. I'd even trade the luck if I could, because I usually raid more with my DK. I'm certainly going to leave a lot of groups with my DK from now on until I get a decent mix, because it seems to take 5 or more tries to get even less than 10 people rolling on the DK token, whereas you get a good Pally token mix every 2 or 3 ques. I guess its what it is, but I do hope Blizzard revisits and researches this. Thanks for all your input, WoW community!