15 year old Stabs a 16 year old bully to Death and will face no penalties

[Providence]

Too lazy to read the other link. It makes little difference, the course of action is still the same. Full psychological evaluation before anything else, then determine the intent of the killer. Intent and his state of mind should determine his fate from that point on.

Everything else I said was just me making a philosophical comment on the nature of self defense and justice.

lol so if i'm extremely scared at the time that gives me the right to kill someone?

[Sekach]

Arguing that stabbing someone 12 times in a fight is a clear sign of a sociopath can only be done by someone who has never been in a knife fight. Under adrenaline you can make a stab every 0.5 seconds and using a small pocket knife doesn't inspire much confidence in the user especially if they were wearing heavy clothing it would be hard to see how much damage you are doing.

[Goundin]

the guy is a murderer, treat him as one...

Then treat all the bullies who's victims commit suicide as murderers too. Bullies should be sentenced to death if their victim kills himself/herself.

[Deleted]

My father told me a story a while back, that went something along these lines:

"When i was young, about 15 years of age, i had a select few friends i used to hang out with. One time, two of them got into an arguement, before long they got into it and were fistfighting. One adult male drove by on his bike, stopped, and without bothering to dismount, said "Are you gonna stop this or should i get off my bike?". Immediately the two kids got up, apologised, and humbly settled their difference in a civil manner".

You know what i read and hear these days? A SINGLE 15yr old kid gets onto public transportation, and terrorises THE ENTIRE FREAKING BUS, including all the adult males that are on it who rather ignore the entire situation than to confront and correct the kid. WOMEN GET BEATEN ON BY KIDS ON THE STREET AND GROWN MEN ALL PASS BY DOING NOTHING.

You're all asking yourselves the wrong questions, you're all looking in the wrong direction. You should all be looking into a freaking mirror and lay the blame where it lies: in adult society.

[VanishO2]

no you won't. if you're that fucking afraid and that helpless you'll do the fetal position defense like most people. then you'll press charges and maybe even sue. if you've got any spine at all you'll just fight back and get even later (if you still feel it's necessary)

i'm more worried about slamming my dick in the car door than i am about getting beaten to death by someone. it just doesn't happen much.

you're more likely to be killed by a deer, a horse, a venomous snake, etc

google Bryan Stow

this guy was a convict, a wife beater and loved to start shit with people and finally got what was coming to him and it was a freak accident that a 6'2" 260lb man hit him and then his head hit the concrete and gave him brain damage, but hell, he still wasn't dead. you can't find more than 1 or 2 stories a year where this happens. it's a freak thing.

when the cable at six flags snapped and lopped the girl's feet off that was horrible, but a FREAK thing.

it's just not normal to think people are going to beat you to death. i'm 31 and would probably get tired before i could beat someone to death. i'd break my hand on their skull. it'd be a lot easier to get a weapon.

stop thinking that anything in the movies is realistic.

"like most people". Enough.

Most people isn't ALL people. What works for you, may not work for another, stop seeing the world as black and white (and saying that the others are seeing it like that, not you).

[Deleted]

No. But I support the concept of self-defense. If the court judges that it is self defense, I think it is reasonable.

I think this is a great point. Whether you think punishment should happen or not, the fact a court has judged it should be the answer.

That a court in the US considers stabbing someone 12 times 'self defence' is a slightly more tricky subject.....

[semaphore]

Yes, but the boy got punched 1 time, he probably was intimidated but that still doesn't justify stabbing someone 12 times in a blinding rage i mean seriously. Yeh i've got to admit you do go overboard at times when you're in situations like that, but i'm talking about the penalty it should be murder end of.

You don't know what murder means, do you? If someone attacks you first, depsite your attempt to avoid it, and inspite of you attempting to get away, then the result cannot be murder. Also I see nothing in the article that says he stabbed the buklly "in a blinding rage". You just made that up to make it fit your "it's a murder!" narrative.

[fizzbob]

The "bully" allegedly followed him off the bus and continually assaulted him as the "victim" tried to run away. He clearly has a right to defend himself. You can say that he overreacted but that's not your decision to make. If one feels that their life is threatened they can react to remove that threat. You don't get to determine when they feel their life is in danger or when they feel it's no longer in danger.

In regards to the knife being illegal I wouldn't assume that without doing the research first. Maybe it is maybe it isn't I don't know but I do know knife laws vary a lot from state to state and city to city. A 2 inch blade can be fine and a 2 1/4 blade lands you in jail. Maybe it was a concealed weapon maybe it was a pocket knife just depends on the laws and ordinances.

Regardless if the knife was illegal he still had the right under the law to protect his person and his life. I only know the details listed in the article, and it's clearly a shitty situation, but the "bully" chose to follow the kid off the bus and assault him. When he made that choice he accepted the consequences.

the bully didn't wanna fight, the murderer didn't wanna fight but the 10+ kids who got off with them to see the fight made sure they fought.

the murderer doesn't even sound like he was bullied that bad. he wasn't beaten up by them or even picked on daily.

kid is fucked up and can't deal with shit and nothing that happened has helped him learn how

[DeltrusDisc]

I don't even, what?

How can a person kill somebody with being punished, i mean yes it is a bully, but a bully can't be that bad that he deserves death!

Read more of the article than the title or first and second paragraph. This bully was not your average bully, it seems. Punching Jorge in the back of his head? Throwing a rock or something from the back of the bus to the front of the bus where Jorge sat? Like, really? This Jorge kid also tried repeatedly to avoid any altercations with the bully - to no avail. I fully support the judge's decision.

[mirodin]

12 times? This kid sounds like a deranged little fuck head. He should be in jail. He was in no real danger, it was just kids being stupid.

"During that hearing, students recounted for the judge previous altercations between the two teens, including one instance on the bus when something was lobbed from the back, where Dylan Nuno sat, to the front, where Saavedra was."

Oh no he threw something at him, quick better stab him twelve times. Yea the older kid shouldn't have been picking on him, but stabbing him to death goes waaaaay beyond self defense. For those of you saying, "he's a bully, got what he deserved" you're all a bunch of sick fucks who probably got bullied when you were in high school because you are creepy and weird.

Do you really believe that? That he was only hit once and that was it. If so you rly need to get yourself educated on what bullying is. "The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus." that did not happen only in 2 days, if that does not give you any idea of what this kid has been though then there is something wrong with you and not him.

[Deleted]

Read more of the article than the title or first and second paragraph. This bully was not your average bully, it seems. Punching Jorge in the back of his head? Throwing a rock or something from the back of the bus to the front of the bus where Jorge sat? Like, really? This Jorge kid also tried repeatedly to avoid any altercations with the bully - to no avail. I fully support the judge's decision.

To be honest the behaviour sounds exactly like a typical bully.

[fizzbob]

"like most people". Enough.

Most people isn't ALL people. What works for you, may not work for another, stop seeing the world as black and white (and saying that the others are seeing it like that, not you).

so do you believe the average person is just itching to fight?

[pickley]

Read more of the article than the title or first and second paragraph. This bully was not your average bully, it seems. Punching Jorge in the back of his head? Throwing a rock or something from the back of the bus to the front of the bus where Jorge sat? Like, really? This Jorge kid also tried repeatedly to avoid any altercations with the bully - to no avail. I fully support the judge's decision.

He stabbed him 12 times... If thats not murder its at least manslaughter.

You shouldnt be able to dodge this charge, he ended a life. Self defense or not...

[Deleted]

Do you really believe that? That he was only hit once and that was it. If so you rly need to get yourself educated on what bullying is. "The judge also highlighted that Saavedra would skip school or find other ways home to avoid the bus." that did not happen only in 2 days, if that does not give you any idea of what this kid has been though then there is something wrong with you and not him.

But that is all that is reported, you equally cannot go and just assume the bullying was more than what stated - that is just as dangerous as assuming it was only 1 punch.

[brirrspliff]

You don't know what that bully planned to do to the boy. You are advocating what that bully does because you expect the kid to stand there and take it. That's not how it works here. If somebody doesn't want to act like a human being, then we aren't going to treat them like one.

oh look, all high and mighty. land of the brave, eh?! *hihi*

[Skandulous]

I'm sorry, I just cannot endorse the murder of anyone,r egardless of the circumstances.

This does NOT mean I don't understand, sympathise, empathise or agree (or all of the above), but for me it's easy to sit here and catagorically say the boy who took another boys life is (in this instance) in the wrong. The bully was also in the wrong etc etc , but murder should not and can not be tolerated without any form of repurcussions (again what a suitable punishment for these crimes is is totall situational and not part of the question).

Is that wordy enough to get me out of any 'HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG'. I understand the many sides of the story, and I have formed my opinion.

the law is the law

Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.

In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.

If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.

[VanishO2]

A; I've never stabbed anyone, but I'm pretty sure a couple shivs, then running away would be a better response; if it was honestly a "life threatening situation" (Lol @ life threatening 16 year old kids. What's he going to do, twitter you to death with facebook?)

B; It's common knowledge that no one under 200lbs is going to be left standing, after 10+ knife wounds to the torso

Even for kids?

Even kids that probably their only notion about knife fights would be in games where they can hit someone for a way more than 10 stabs and they're still there fighting you? lol.

[OrcsRLame]

lol so if i'm extremely scared at the time that gives me the right to kill someone?

Where did I say that? Do you understand what a psychological evaluation is for? The state needs to determine if this kid is actually psychotic, and if this killing was premeditated, as that will greatly effect his level of guilt and sentencing.

If no extra evidence is found concerning this possibly being premeditated murder, there's nothing further the government can do as it sounds like the court already ruled it as self defense.

Please stop twisting my words.

[Demona3]

The question I raise about this case: Did the kid who was being bullied EVER tell someone that he was being bullied by the other boy? If so, why was NOTHING done? If he didn't tell someone, then he is a murderer. However, bullying is NOT ok. Everyday, I read stories about some kid killing themselves because of other kids bullying them. Most of the time, they tell the teachers or parents and NOTHING is done.

I have a child, if I find out someone is bullying her, the other kid better watch out, because I won't stand for it.

[Deleted]

You don't know what murder means, do you? If someone attacks you first, depsite your attempt to avoid it, and inspite of you attempting to get away, then the result cannot be murder. Also I see nothing in the article that says he stabbed the buklly "in a blinding rage". You just made that up to make it fit your "it's a murder!" narrative.

Did you read what the person i quoted said. He was talking about a blinding rage so stfu. Regardless of if he was punched first there is a difference between Man Slaughter and Murder that boy had an intention to use that knife otherwise he wouldn't have took it, If this was Man Slaughter he would not have stabbed the boy 12 times, maybe 3-5 times, but 12 times that is intention to kill. It is murder.