Now that "LFR Needer For Hire" is identified as WoW gold maker, what next?

[Peyj]

Well, at least with people doing this, it might encourage Blizzard implementing something to stop/discourage it, like they did with people selling instant tank queues and then leaving as soon as the dungeon popped.

[RyanEX]

You do realize that if the Needer for Hire wasn't there, another person that needs the gear would take his place right?

Giving geared people a reason to queue up does a few positive things that you are over looking:
1) Shorter queue times (everyone likes this)
2) Higher margin for error - high dps, hps, good tanking
3) experience

In my eyes, there's nothing wrong with this. I would rather have a geared player win the gear I'm rolling on and sell it to a friend than have a 9k dps scrub win it.

Also, who are you to say his time isn't equally as valuable as yours? They deserve a shot at loot for their time, just like everyone else. What the player intends to do with the loot is none of your concern and if 2 players benefit from a drop rather than just 1, it's a good thing.

Uh huh.


LFR already had short queue times BEFORE Needer for Hire.
Who says the Needer is a guy in good gear?He's just as likely to be an idiot in all pvp gear that can barely scrape 10k.
This is the only positive point, but still clashes with 1 and 2.

You would not say nothing is wrong with this if you really needed the gear and some ass rolled on it then immediately sold it to said scrub. Get it through your head. Needers don't give a damn who gets the gear so long as they get paid. A guy in 3 piece needing one more to make his four piece, or a guy in pvp blues, it's all the same to them.

SO by this I'm guessing that you're all for Diablo AH using REAL MONEY. I mean if you're for people who have zero skill using the money they bought or made legitimately to get an unfair advantage over those with actual skill and a need for the item, you wouldn't have a problem if it worked out and Blizz used it in WoW as well.

[Zumi]

The dumbest thing I saw in LFR was a mage offering $10 Paypal for tier tokens.

[Beeflord]

Welcome to the world of economics. Someone is good at making money and needs gear. Someone else is good at getting gear and needs money. So they make deals. This is mostly win/win. I really dont see how this practice does more harm than good or how this is much different from using the AH. Pretty sure Blizzard saw this coming and it fits nicely into their policy of people doing what they like to advance their character.

[Orangetai420]

Uh huh.


LFR already had short queue times BEFORE Needer for Hire.
Who says the Needer is a guy in good gear?He's just as likely to be an idiot in all pvp gear that can barely scrape 10k.
This is the only positive point, but still clashes with 1 and 2.

You would not say nothing is wrong with this if you really needed the gear and some ass rolled on it then immediately sold it to said scrub. Get it through your head. Needers don't give a damn who gets the gear so long as they get paid. A guy in 3 piece needing one more to make his four piece, or a guy in pvp blues, it's all the same to them.

SO by this I'm guessing that you're all for Diablo AH using REAL MONEY. I mean if you're for people who have zero skill using the money they bought or made legitimately to get an unfair advantage over those with actual skill and a need for the item, you wouldn't have a problem if it worked out and Blizz used it in WoW as well.

Why would you pay someone that isn't capable of carrying you? And who is going to sell gear before using it themselves (unless it's OS gear).

I can't see many people paying scrubs to roll on gear for them. Then again, with this community I wouldn't be surprised.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I do support D3 RMAH. Item selling sites would have existed anyway, people that wanted to buy items would have had that option either way. At least I can play hardcore and sell my items without violating ToS.



Because some people can't read, this next part is in response to the Diablo 3 RMAH comment that I quoted. (It has nothing to do with WoW):


Did you ever play D2? Why do I care what gear someone else wears? It doesn't affect my play experience. I am a hardcore puritan (I only use items that I find myself in hardcore mode.) The only argument you can make is PvP imbalance but it isn't a PvP game and once again, anyone that wanted best in slot gear could easily get it from an item site or in a public trade game (most likely duped). The only thing that changes is that players now have a safe option to buy gear and Blizz will be able to take a rake and keep D3 servers free. I can't see anything wrong with this unless you have the "I'm a special snowflake, no one can have my gear" mentality.

[Rossholee]

Nope, I think someone should do this for me on my server!

[RyanEX]

Why would you pay someone that isn't capable of carrying you? And who is going to sell gear before using it themselves (unless it's OS gear).

I can't see many people paying scrubs to roll on gear for them. Then again, with this community I wouldn't be surprised.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I do support D3 RMAH. Item selling sites would have existed anyway, people that wanted to buy items would have had that option either way. At least I can play hardcore and sell my items without violating ToS.

Did you ever play D2? Why do I care what gear someone else wears? It doesn't affect my play experience. I am a hardcore puritan (I only use items that I find myself in hardcore mode.) The only argument you can make is PvP imbalance but it isn't a PvP game and once again, anyone that wanted best in slot gear could easily get it from an item site or in a public trade game (most likely duped). The only thing that changes is that players now have a safe option to buy gear and Blizz will be able to take a rake and keep D3 servers free. I can't see anything wrong with this unless you have the "I'm a special snowflake, no one can have my gear" mentality.

You're part of said community.

They're not paying someone to CARRY them. They're paying someone to ROLL on the item that they want to give them a better chance at getting it. And this is the heart of the problem.

I don't give a damn about the gear outside of helping my guild progress. And nice try and de-railing opposition by calling people out on the "special snowflake" mentality. What makes the others so special?

Because they're willing to pay you for an item you have no use for? Talk about Hypocrisy.

[Orangetai420]

You're part of said community.

They're not paying someone to CARRY them. They're paying someone to ROLL on the item that they want to give them a better chance at getting it. And this is the heart of the problem.

I don't give a damn about the gear outside of helping my guild progress. And nice try and de-railing opposition by calling people out on the "special snowflake" mentality. What makes the others so special?

Because they're willing to pay you for an item you have no use for? Talk about Hypocrisy.

The "special snowflake" argument was in regards to the D3 RMAH, it has nothing to do with the OP.

If you are really that concerned about winning loot, join a guild. You can't expect to go into LFR and have fair loot rules with the current system. If Blizz really wanted LFR loot to be fair it would be unique, unable to be traded, and it would be impossible for one person to win the same item twice. As it stands, the system is not like this and is working as intended.

LFR is intended to let players see content and as a stepping stone into real raids.

If a player is in the raid actively participating, he has a fair shot at loot just like everyone else. If he/she wins loot and wants to sell it to someone on their server, good for them. Two people benefited from that drop.

I really see no problem with this. It's no different than me doing LFR with my guild, all of us rolling need on items and distributing it amongst ourselves as we see fit. If you think this is a problem than I suggest you join a guild and do the same.

In regards to your comment "LFR had shorter queues before Needer for Hire", the queues were shorter because LFR was new and popular. Most people have seen the content, outgeared it or have simply gotten bored. I highly doubt that the increase in queue times has much to do with Needers for Hire. I'm sure there are a fair amount of people that do not use the tool simply because of the loot rules and that's understandable. I just don't think this new fad of paying people to roll for you is a big contribution to the increase in queue times.

This is my opinion, it is not fact. My intent is not to 'flame' or come off as a douche. I understand where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree.

[Sharrel]

heh. had a very over geared rogue in a LFR i was doing on my kitty druid. only other agil user in the raid. he needed on everything he could. luckily i won the ones i needed on. have to say i thought he was a prick anyway. if he had won them though, i wouldn't have bought them from him. even aside from being broke. there is always next week.

[RyanEX]

The "special snowflake" argument was in regards to the D3 RMAH, it has nothing to do with the OP.

If you are really that concerned about winning loot, join a guild. You can't expect to go into LFR and have fair loot rules with the current system. If Blizz really wanted LFR loot to be fair it would be unique, unable to be traded, and it would be impossible for one person to win the same item twice. As it stands, the system is not like this and is working as intended.

LFR is intended to let players see content and as a stepping stone into real raids.

If a player is in the raid actively participating, he has a fair shot at loot just like everyone else. If he/she wins loot and wants to sell it to someone on their server, good for them. Two people benefited from that drop.

I really see no problem with this. It's no different than me doing LFR with my guild, all of us rolling need on items and distributing it amongst ourselves as we see fit. If you think this is a problem than I suggest you join a guild and do the same.

In regards to your comment "LFR had shorter queues before Needer for Hire", the queues were shorter because LFR was new and popular. Most people have seen the content, outgeared it or have simply gotten bored. I highly doubt that the increase in queue times has much to do with Needers for Hire. I'm sure there are a fair amount of people that do not use the tool simply because of the loot rules and that's understandable. I just don't think this new fad of paying people to roll for you is a big contribution to the increase in queue times.

This is my opinion, it is not fact. My intent is not to 'flame' or come off as a douche. I understand where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree.

I am in a guild.

I've only done LFR once, which is when I managed ot get my 4pc, due to a drought of Conqueror and glut of Vanquisher to the point where we've started having people get them for offspec.

I'm railing against the system in general. If a guy wins it, because he needs it, THEN gets an offer that he can't refuse and chooses to sell it that's one thing.

But to have people HIRED for the express purpose on wanting a better shot at said item that other people is, to me, utter bullshit. They did just as much (and most of the FAR MORE) to deserve a fair shot at whatever item they need instead of having some prick bring in 5 others in mostly pvp shit gear to give himself 5x the chance because he buys gold online.

In the case of your guild, all I can say is that payback is a bitch and tends to strike when you least want it to.

I'm a nice guy, and I like being one. Which is why I won't and don't liek the idea of taking advantage of a flawed system to make things even harder for people that given the chance could prove decent players.

And finally, you say that LFR is a steppign stone into actual raids, eh. So explain to me how somebody on a new toon is supposed to GEAR UP if he has to deal with X amount of alts with 20 - 30+ gold and willing to spend it to make sure an alt toon that'll never see the inside of a normal/heroic raid? I'm pretty damn sure your "guild" wouldn't take in a guy in a blues and maybe one or two pieces of 353 and 359. So how is the guy supposed to compete when you run a LFR for the purpose of gearing up another worthless alt for a guildy that probably can't stay out of the fire.

[ThewF]

Yea ive seen this. someone pays 5 people of the same spec to queue as dps and need on the gear the guy needs. pays each person 500g per loot.

500g is very cheap. We're talking people are paying upwards of 15k for a tier token if you win it and hand it over to them.

[AeneasBK]

This is behavior which is reprehensible, sure, but there's nothing Blizzard can do about it short of making LFR gear untradeable, which opens up a whole new can of worms.

What can of worms is that? Sounds like a great solution to dimish the benefits of being a need-rool whore

[Orangetai420]

And finally, you say that LFR is a steppign stone into actual raids, eh. So explain to me how somebody on a new toon is supposed to GEAR UP if he has to deal with X amount of alts with 20 - 30+ gold and willing to spend it to make sure an alt toon that'll never see the inside of a normal/heroic raid? I'm pretty damn sure your "guild" wouldn't take in a guy in a blues and maybe one or two pieces of 353 and 359. So how is the guy supposed to compete when you run a LFR for the purpose of gearing up another worthless alt for a guildy that probably can't stay out of the fire.

LFR isn't for gearing up, it's for seeing the fights. The 5man 378 gear is fine for normal DS.

It's very convenient being able to bring a new player into a raid without explaining every single mechanic. Now all you have to explain are the slight differences between LFR and normal.

If you are using LFR to gear up, you're in for weeks of frustration and disappointment.

EDIT: And no, we would not take someone in blues and 353. That's what the new 5mans are for. 378ilvl says hello...

[RyanEX]

LFR isn't for gearing up, it's for seeing the fights. The 5man 378 gear is fine for normal DS.

It's very convenient being able to bring a new player into a raid without explaining every single mechanic. Now all you have to explain are the slight differences between LFR and normal.

If you are using LFR to gear up, you're in for weeks of frustration and disappointment.

EDIT: And no, we would not take someone in blues and 353. That's what the new 5mans are for. 378ilvl says hello...

You gear up to do LFR, which then gears you up for actual raiding.

I'd buy that IF people actually used legit mechanics in LFR and if the fights themselves gave a better indication of the jump from LFR to Normal. Which they don't.

Yeah, now that people have started to use it as a money maker. Other than the trinkets, loot went out normally.

Bosses in LFR drop more loot than 5mans = better chance of getting something you can use. At least that was how it was intended to work.

[Blackenator]

Make loot only tradeable for like 5 minutes and not for like 2 hours (whatever it is) will only limit this problem not eliminate in entirely

[Darkfriend]

Emergent gameplay. Its amazing. If we wana talk about "fair" how about shitty players not being able to get gear period?

[taaveti]

I'm all in for making loots non-tradable, and maybe non-vendorable/disenchantable on top of that. That should discourage a lot of people from rolling on gears they don't actually need.
As for the problem with winning multiple of the same items, they have already fixed this problem in 4.3.2.
Something else I would propose would be introducing a roll penalty after winning an item, say a 25 point reduction on your rolls after winning an item within that CD (seperated for 1-4 and 5-8), that should encourage people to only roll need on gears they ACTUALLY need (and passing minor upgrades to those that can benefit more).

TL;DR what I propose is:
1. Make LFR gears/tokens non-tradable
2. Make LFR gears/tokens non-vendorable
3. Impose roll penalty for each piece of gear you won within that CD

[MoanaLisa]

LFR isn't for gearing up, it's for seeing the fights. The 5man 378 gear is fine for normal DS.

Obviously with the tier pieces as part of the loot tables it's for both. If what you said was strictly true, then a lot of very smart people in some excellent guilds got suspended for eight days for no reason at all. And apparently they didn't think that the 378 gear was 'fine for normal' or they wouldn't have bothered. Are you suffering from memory loss or something? Or are you just dim?

OT: Clearly, this "Needer" crisis is so serious that all raids should be removed from the game immediately. It might spread to pugs and who knows what else. </sarcasm>

[dvfd]

Maybe they'll fix it after they fix it so the fucking rolls will identify when a person already has a fucking UNIQUE trinket, so that they can't roll on it again.

[Venant]

Once you win a roll, why shouldn't you have the right to do with it as you wish?

If somebody has better gear and rolls simply to spite of other players that he might not like in the raid, do his motives for rolling degrade his right to roll? If somebody isn't planning to 'use' the gear to raid higher tiers of difficulty, does that mean they have less of a right to gear in LFR over a hard-core raider?

How does it 'hurt' your chances of winning gear, unless you have the expectation that people in the raid will forfeit their own rights to rolling on the gear. Even if somebody just rolls on any item they can because they want to win something, and they intend to vendor the item later, doesn't mean that you can disenfranchise them of their rights to rolling on items within the games parameters of rolling.

Expecting to run LFR and get gear simply because you don't have gear and others do would be the epitome entitlement.