Is arcane really bad now or just being eclipsed by fire being great?

[Tobedeleted123]

I mean, it didn't get any nerfs and it used to be one of the best specs in 4.2. How come I don't see any arcane mages nowadays? Why in "raidbot" ranking arcane has so low dps median? I know fire is better but still, I barely see any arcane mage in top guilds (except for spine of course). Is arcane really bad now? Will it become commonly played again after the fire nerfs? Also regarding the itemization - it has loads of haste and crit and really a little of mastery, may that be a gearing issue?

[Henline]

Several encounters have moderate movement or adds and arcane performs poorly in both of those scenarios, then factor in fire doing well in both of those scenarios and getting buffed for this patch.

I doubt the fire nerfs will cause much change on most fights, but you may see more mages changing for single target encounters with simple mechanics because there is less rng for comparable damage.

[abndrew82]

Arcane is not bad, still see many arcane mages that are doing great DPS, may not be the top but are always up there.

[Dariela]

I also think a lot of the previous arcane mages wanted to play fire, but felt it wasn't competetive enough. So they went fire as soon as it was buffed.

Plus, there is always a "shiny" factor when a spec gets buffed, many people tried it out because it was changed.

As well, monkey see, monkey do. If StarLengedUberMage goes fire and does well, JoeSchmo and JaneSchmo will follow the leader.

[Tobedeleted123]

My point is, it was a spec for topping charts and now, without any nerf, it suddenly isn't (I mean, look on raidbots median dps ranking, it's really low). I like the concept of arcane and not only "rotation, cds and procs" but also managing mana, I don't really find it boring either and I'd love to see it on top back again. I just don't know what happened to all that beautiful dps arcane mage could do.

Arcane was unchanged in the last patch. It still does the same DPS. I wonder how it suddenly got "bad" just because fire puts out a little more damage.

Yes obviously it does, I'm just wondering why it changed from "OMFG arcane, let's top some charts" to "meh" for most people.

[Twoflower]

Arcane was unchanged in the last patch. It still does the same DPS. I wonder how it suddenly got "bad" just because fire puts out a little more damage.

Sheesh, people these days. If it aint the absolutely very best, it's bad ? -.-

head -> wall.

[crimsonhead]

Blizzard I feel has shied away from "play what you enjoy since it's competitive" to "moar dps plx". I know, certain HM stuff requires the utmost dps, fire excels because of combustion / living bomb procs and add dps, arcane is fine, I have seen (sadly) many a mage hit the top of the meter as arcane (50k dps anyone), but fire is also up there, insta pyroblasts are fun.

With sites such as elitist jerks as well as number crunchers and min/max enthusiasts, you will get this FOTM style of speccing, people want what is the best, bar none.

[Eec003]

I also think a lot of the previous arcane mages wanted to play fire, but felt it wasn't competetive enough. So they went fire as soon as it was buffed.

Plus, there is always a "shiny" factor when a spec gets buffed, many people tried it out because it was changed.

As well, monkey see, monkey do. If StarLengedUberMage goes fire and does well, JoeSchmo and JaneSchmo will follow the leader.

this is usually the case.

[Sparkly]

Fire is slightly higher on a single target fight. It also has more utility. Fight mechanics also highly favour fire (Morechock = multi-dot at split/can dps while moving to crystal, Yor'Sahj = combustion aoe/not gimped by mana voids/moving to blobs is less harmful due to strafing, Zon'ozz = mobility/survivability for techno, Hagara = able to make better use of the tiny window of vulnerability/can dps during frost phase, Ultraxion = can soak HoT, Lootship = multidot, Madness = multidot/impact spreading at times)

Unless they're there for the buff, serious raiders will be going fire simply as it's what helps their raid most. The same thing occurred last tier where frost was actually comparable but it showed horribly in the raidbots.

If all of the top players are using one spec, and 99% of the rest only play arcane because they can't do anything else or they're too stubborn to optimise their performance, then on resources like raidbots.com the gap between specs appears even larger than it truly is.

[Woceip]

Arcane was/is a snoozefest. Candidly, if they all three played at the same dps. I'd play frost, because I found it fun. Fire has been a refreshing breeze now that I don't feel pressured to play a spec I don't care for simply because there is such a gap. In the past where I've switched specs on other classes for an edge, I at least enjoyed the playstyle I was switching to. Not so with arcane.

[Youvegotfail]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that fire is just more fun. Everyone makes fun of arcane for being a one button spec, and in all honesty it kinda is. There's the mana management aspect of it, but arcane blast usually does 75%+ of your overall dmg, so basically....yeah, one button. Fire has it's flaws too, but it's SOOOOOOOO much more entertaining than Arcane. Now that it also does comparable to better dmg (depending on the encounter) it's just a no-brainer to me that most people would switch fire.

Personally, I've been fire since day one up until Cata came out and have been praying for it to be good again all expansion.

P.S. Off-topic: Being fire on Alysrazor was the funnest experience of this expansion so far

[Henline]

My point is, it was a spec for topping charts and now, without any nerf, it suddenly isn't (I mean, look on raidbots median dps ranking, it's really low). I like the concept of arcane and not only "rotation, cds and procs" but also managing mana, I don't really find it boring either and I'd love to see it on top back again. I just don't know what happened to all that beautiful dps arcane mage could do.


Yes obviously it does, I'm just wondering why it changed from "OMFG arcane, let's top some charts" to "meh" for most people.

From my experience most people hate playing arcane anyway because it's mostly mindless. Sure there are subtle things you have to do well in order to max your damage, but it's far less engaging than fire (although fire rng is nearly as bad as arcane dullness). I've played fire on my mage the entire expansion partly because I haven't been raiding seriously, but mostly because I find the playstyle much more enjoyable personally and I'm glad it's in the place it's in currently. Likewise I'm sure you enjoyed arcane for the duration that it was #1 because it's the spec you prefer. No spec should always be superior imo, especially for an entire expansion, and I hope that with the new overhaul again in MoP they can keep all of the specs closer (as unlikely as that is).

[Imnick]

I don't really find Fire massively more interesting than Arcane as, in a fight without AOE, both specs basically boil down to pushing one button over and over again

[ssjgohan4life]

A lot of people seem to think since arcane is no longer keyboard smash first place every fight anymore that its bad, its still the same as before, its just other specs are doing better and almost every other spec in the game is more enjoyable, that said I know a few people who enjoy arcane. To me its just a one button spec where everything you need is handed to you. Do more dmg to slowed targets? Here! Lets make your main spell apply slow for you! Low on mana? Here! Lets make your mana gem give you a spell power buff! etc etc, the other two aren't as hand holding imho.

And I too have seen the sudden lack of Arcane mages in raids, when I see a mage on top 10 (besides myself, where as I'm always fire or frost) its almost always a fire mage pulling ridiculous numbers. I'm by far the most experienced as a frost mage and pull my own on most fights, but even when I go fire with my less experience and my gear optimized for frost, I still pull impressive numbers, and fire is a lot more fun to play than arcane, so its not surprising to see more fire mages. But alas they are getting nerfed this patch, and I can't help but believe Arcane will come out on top again once the QQers get tired of not being top anymore.

[Heilige]

Arcane was/is a snoozefest. Candidly, if they all three played at the same dps. I'd play frost, because I found it fun. Fire has been a refreshing breeze now that I don't feel pressured to play a spec I don't care for simply because there is such a gap. In the past where I've switched specs on other classes for an edge, I at least enjoyed the playstyle I was switching to. Not so with arcane.

Personally, single target fire is more of a snooze fest to me, no minigame to play, feel almost like a ret paladin...

A) Are any buttons glowing/PA's up? Yes - press it. No - Proceed to Question B.
B) Is Living Bomb up? Yes - Push Fireball. No - Refresh LB and go to Question A.

Arcane is only a couple percent behind fire, but the bigger reason everyone myself included will play fire is it's nearly necessary for HM's. Cauterize's raid utility is very much in full display this tier, and fire's AOE/cleaves are used on more fights here than T11 or T12.

[silentkillin]

Fire is also very proc heavy. I have seen fights where fire mages are low in the dps because they got very few hotstreak procs and couldnt ignite cleave. Arcane has less RNG. With the nerf it is getting in the patch I think you will see more people switching back to arcane.

Coupled with the RNG and the nerf the security blanket of arcane will be comforting once again.

[mostlyharmless]

For now, the 4.3 buffs to fire put it ahead in nearly every situation - even a patchwerk fight. Arcane is just as good as ever though, as others have pointed out; it's the #2 dps spec for a patchwerk fight, and in 4.3.2 it will be the #1 again. The only catch is that there aren't many (any?) patchwerk fights anymore.

Arcane is arguably more difficult than fire to perform well with in a typical raiding environment: no dots, dps is absolute crap during movement, have to use burn phases only when you have a nice long time to stand and cast without any interruption, no cauterize to save you... The T13 4pc is kind of awkward with arcane, but awesome with fire. Arcane runs into the GCD way sooner than fire too - so fights where you have huge haste buffs are going to favor fire. Any time you have ads, significant movement, high risk of getting 1-shot, 0-mana mechanics like mana void, fire will be a better fit. Any time you get stunned or the target becomes untargetable, fire can keep dots running while arcane's dps goes to 0.

In order for people to prefer arcane over fire, raid buffs being equal, arcane can't just beat fire at a patchwerk fight - it has to be substantially stronger than fire to make up for all its weaknesses in actual raid situations.

[Norech]

Arcane wasn't changed in the patch. What was changed, though, were the fights. And unfortunately, most of them make it challenging for arcane to outperform. On the other hand, I rolled an arcane mage in my 5/8h guild just to bring 3% damage, as well as lust, and I'm doing just fine. Clearly if 3% damage isn't needed, why play a spec that is not only better suited for most fight, but got buffed in the patch? It just makes sense to play fire now... unless you're in a situation like mine.

[nixcookies]

Arcane is not bad nothing has changed with it.

When playing my mage I would get fed up because I find Arcane to be the most boring spec in game however I was practically forced into speccing it if I ever wanted to raid.

[Max Rebo]

Fire is also very proc heavy. I have seen fights where fire mages are low in the dps because they got very few hotstreak procs and couldnt ignite cleave. Arcane has less RNG. With the nerf it is getting in the patch I think you will see more people switching back to arcane.

Coupled with the RNG and the nerf the security blanket of arcane will be comforting once again.

That's what I did, but only because RNG luck was never on my side when I played fire. It made me want to throw my computer out the window.

Also, I wouldn't really call fire a proc-heavy spec. Frost is proc-heavy and was great fun to play with 4T12. Fire is proc-lite (although probably less so in 4T12, but with 4T13 it's definitely found wanting in that department).