So about these "skill sets"

[Matt0193]

I personally don't mind these trees, I didn't mind them in WoW before. It's all going to end up the same anyway, whether you cut out all of the extra talents (%damage increase) and bake them into the specified abilities (Thanks, clusterfuck of overpowered abilities while leveling (Ambush anyone?)), or whether you have them as choices (Which will obviously be taken anyway) later on.

It's a matter of preference. I'd rather that feel that you're improving your character, as opposed to just stomping things from the start which is the result of cutting out all of the %damage modifying talents.

[Deleted]

You honestly think all of WoW's abilities are original? Have you played any MMOs before WoW?

No MMO has been that original since MUDs. Hell, even AD&D had abilities that increased an enemy's AC (which, in the days of THAC0, meant they were easier to hit)

I nver even said anything about where wow got its ability inspiration from stop putting words in my mouth, my question was if atleast 1-3 new abilltiys would be to much to ask of a new mmo?

@ Atrahasis, so how long did you have to look for that one talent which isn't a 1:1 copy? :P
Dont kid yourselv its still just Lifetab and i believe lock t8 or so had a reduction bonus.
I must admit though that particular talent is not a direct copy.

But claiming that the talents are anything other than shameless ripoff's is borderline hilarious.

I am not talking about standard abiltys all MMO's have such as, a nuke, interrupts, gap closer etc.

I am talking about the obscene amount of the talents/abilitys that have been copied.

[obdigore]

I know.

It is amazing how WoW copied all their talents from EQ and Smaug MUDS.

Oh wait, you are talking about TOR?

Suggest to me 5 new balanced talents/abilities that will work in a holy trinity mmo that aren't anything like any ability/talent that has been used in a previous game, ever.

[Glorious Leader]

I nver even said anything about where wow got its ability inspiration from stop putting words in my mouth, my question was if atleast 1-3 new abilltiys would be to much to ask of a new mmo?

@ Atrahasis, so how long did you have to look for that one talent which isn't a 1:1 copy? :P
Dont kid yourselv its still just Lifetab and i believe lock t8 or so had a reduction bonus.
I must admit though that particular talent is not a direct copy.

But claiming that the talents are anything other than shameless ripoff's is borderline hilarious.

I am not talking about standard abiltys all MMO's have such as, a nuke, interrupts, gap closer etc.

I am talking about the obscene amount of the talents/abilitys that have been copied.

It took me 40 seconds and most of that was going back to confirm that didn't sneak in some way for warlocks to get free life taps in some fashion or another through the talent trees. Thank you come again.

[Deleted]

I know.

It is amazing how WoW copied all their talents from EQ and Smaug MUDS.

Oh wait, you are talking about TOR?

Suggest to me 5 new balanced talents/abilities that will work in a holy trinity mmo that aren't anything like any ability/talent that has been used in a previous game, ever.

I dont get payed to come up with talents, BW employees do.

Why do you ignore my question? I Never asked where wow got its insipration from. My question was if like 3 new abilitys or so when switching MMO's is to much to ask?

---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 12:38 PM ----------

It took me 40 seconds and most of that was going back to confirm that didn't sneak in some way for warlocks to get free life taps in some fashion or another through the talent trees. Thank you come again.

So you think asking for some new abiliys is to much to ask?

here is my current tree i used on my sorcerer:


- convection (2,4,6% dmg increase on select spells)
Dont think i need to elaborate further? as cookie cutter copy as can be.

-Reserves: Increases max force
Old arcane mage +healer talent.

-Electric induction: Force cost decrease of spells.
Every healer had those in wow.

Tier 2:

- Lightning Spire: increases range of some spells.
Copy of stoneage caster range talents wow used to have.

- Exsanguinate: Increases dot duration 3/6 sec.
SW: pain talent from wow.

- Subversion: Pushback reduction + slightly increased regen.
Every caster spec has those in wow.

- Lightning barrier: Increased absorb of shield.
Disc priest talent copy.

Tier 3:

- Supression: cooldown reduction on CC.
Copy of shaman Hex talent.

- Chain lightning.
Yeah no further explanation needed.

- Lightning barrage: Force lightning ticks 2 as fats when procced.
1:1 copy of the old mage talent missile barrage:

- Electric bindings: Root on aoe.
This is improved cone of cold, added on a slightly different aoe though.

Tier 4:

- Lightning storm: Chance on nuke to make chainlightning instant.
Ele shammy talent.

- Lightning effusion: Crits reduce force cost of next two spells.
This would be clearcasting

-Backlash: Shield CCs nearby enemys when ending.
- This is Shattered barrier. frostmage talent.

Tier 5:

-Forked Lightning: Chance on nuke to make a second nuke for diminished dmg.
1:1 copy of lightning overload.

- Conduction: Forked lightning increase dmg by 1% stacks 3 times.
1:1 copy of ret pala talent.

- Polarity shift: 20% haste for 10 sec.
This is frostmage talent icy veins.

Tier 6:

- reverberating force: Increases crit dmg by 10/20/30/40/50%
Ancient wow talent all casters sued to have and was scrapped.

Tier 7:

- Thundering blast: Nuke that auto crits with dot on mob.
This would be a direct copy of Lava burst of eleshammys.

[Glorious Leader]

I dont get payed to come up with talents, BW employees do.

Why do you ignore my question? I Never asked where wow got its insipration from. My question was if like 3 new abilitys or so when switching MMO's is to much to ask?

Yes it is. That's mostly because people like what they are comfortable with. It's the same reason hollywood has 548390584930584390 million remakes, sequels, or movies based on a book coming out this year.

[Remilia]

I nver even said anything about where wow got its ability inspiration from stop putting words in my mouth, my question was if atleast 1-3 new abilltiys would be to much to ask of a new mmo?

@ Atrahasis, so how long did you have to look for that one talent which isn't a 1:1 copy? :P
Dont kid yourselv its still just Lifetab and i believe lock t8 or so had a reduction bonus.
I must admit though that particular talent is not a direct copy.

But claiming that the talents are anything other than shameless ripoff's is borderline hilarious.

I am not talking about standard abiltys all MMO's have such as, a nuke, interrupts, gap closer etc.

I am talking about the obscene amount of the talents/abilitys that have been copied.

Okay, here's a fun example of 'different' then.

Here we have an EQ2 Fighter (warrior) Guardian.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/1.png

This is their 'overview'
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/2.png

The bottom are AAs, there is 4 AA trees. (Alternate Advancement)

AA essentially acts like a talent tree gained on a different exp level.

Now... however, EQ2 has the issue of 'not catering to the casual' or 'this is waer;alkjwerlakwrjwa weird' No one wants to play that.

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian
For well... that =\

Now... I don't mind playing with a set keybinds from shift1-6, 1-6 hfvgzxct, ctrl1-6 alt1-6, cause I have before, but remember everyone else is not me -.-

Note EQ2 was technically released earlier than WoW.

[obdigore]

You ignored my point.

'New Abilities' dont really exist in the current holy trinity model of MMOs. Everything is going to be able to be considered a 'copy' of what came before.

[Deleted]

Yes it is. That's mostly because people like what they are comfortable with. It's the same reason hollywood has 548390584930584390 million remakes, sequels, or movies based on a book coming out this year.

Fair enough that people like qhat they are comfortable with.

Saying go back to wow kiddys, tor is so much better is somehow weird though then giving how much was copyed.

---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 12:46 PM ----------

Okay, here's a fun example of 'different' then.

Here we have an EQ2 Fighter (warrior) Guardian.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/1.png

This is their 'overview'
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/2.png

The bottom are AAs, there is 4 AA trees. (Alternate Advancement)

AA essentially acts like a talent tree gained on a different exp level.

Now... however, EQ2 has the issue of 'not catering to the casual' or 'this is waer;alkjwerlakwrjwa weird' No one wants to play that.

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian
For well... that =\

Now... I don't mind playing with a set keybinds from shift1-6, 1-6 hfvgzxct, ctrl1-6 alt1-6, cause I have before, but remember everyone else is not me -.-

Note EQ2 was technically released earlier than WoW.

I agree with you seeing this that wow copyed ALOT fromt hat game.

That was never my intention to point out though, i just wondered if a minimum amout of new talents would have been to much to ask?

Like when the last expansion hit every class got some new stuff like flameorb, ring of frost, dark simulacrum etc. Why can a new game developed from scratch not have a few new things like that?

[Remilia]

Fair enough that people like qhat they are comfortable with.

Saying go back to wow kiddys, tor is so much better is somehow weird though then giving how much was copyed.

---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 12:46 PM ----------



I agree with you seeing this that wow copyed ALOT fromt hat game.

That was never my intention to point out though, i just wondered if a minimum amout of new talents would have been to much to ask?

Like when the last expansion hit every class got some new stuff like flameorb, ring of frost, dark simulacrum etc. Why can a new game developed from scratch not have a few new things like that?

More abilities = harder balance. Abilities result in, support, heal, dps, control or survival. The method of implementing is different, yes, however the end result will do one of those that I just mentioned. Too many abilities, you're not going to have PvP. EQ2s PvP I never understood when I played it, cause it was a complete 'what the fuck is going on'.

[gualdhar]

Fair enough that people like qhat tey are comfortable with.

Saying go back to wow kiddys, tor is so much better is somehow weird though then giving how much was copyed.

Again, TOR didn't "copy" WoW, or at the very least, didn't "copy" WoW any more than other games in the genre.

Bioware took what worked with older MMOs, including but not limited to WoW, and improved upon it where necessary, and threw away anything that didn't work. Every MMO does this. Hell, every everything does this. Intel isn't going to suddenly make a microchip out of tin instead of silicon, just to be original. The Food Network isn't going to introduce a cooking show done by a person suffering from pica. Changes almost always happen in degrees, and MMOs are no different.

[Deleted]

I disagree but lets stopping destroying this thread with us arguing.

Lets just agree to disagree :P

Btw i cannot get angry at anyone with John Cleese as their avatar, he is a god among comics haha.

[gualdhar]

I disagree but lets stopping destroying this thread with us arguing.

Lets just agree to disagree :P

Or we can agree you're wrong and are trying to troll this thread. That works too.

[Elim Garak]

So you think asking for some new abiliys is to much to ask?

here is my current tree i used on my sorcerer:

I'll break it down to you. What devs can change (in ANY MMORPG) in a spell to do talents that affect spells:
1. Change power of a spell (5% more damage)
2. Change resource cost of a spell (less mana, eh, force)
3. Change cast time of a spell (cast quicker)
4. Change CD of a spell (wait less)
5. Change duration of spell's effect (dot/hot) (dot hangs longer)
6. Change critical chance for a spell (5% crit)
7. Change range of a spell (5 meters further)
8. Change mechanics of a spell (turn cast into channel, turn cast into CD, etc)
9. Change effect of a spell (turn direct damage into dot, turn direct damage into aoe, etc)
10. Make spell proc something for another spell (like stacking damage bonus for spell B)
11. Change visuals of a spell (cosmetic)

What they can change generally:
1. Add general power bonus (like more healing with all spells)
2. Add hit chance (like all attacks hit more often)
3. Add crit chance (like all abilities crit more often)
4. Give new ability (like Adjective Strike)
5. Change general resource costs (like down 5% on all abilities)
6. Change general resource regeneration (like +5 per sec)
7. Change resource pool (+10 more)
8. Add health bonus (10% more health)
9. Add defense bonus (parry, dodge, block, armor, etc)
10. Add new mechanic to a class or change current one (proc something a player have to react to or watch for)
11. Change visuals of a character (cosmetic)

Now you go find two western MMORPGS with talent systems that DO NOT overlap in those points above.

[Lord Kristivas]

Again, TOR didn't "copy" WoW, or at the very least, didn't "copy" WoW any more than other games in the genre.

Bioware took what worked with older MMOs, including but not limited to WoW, and improved upon it where necessary, and threw away anything that didn't work. Every MMO does this. Hell, every everything does this. Intel isn't going to suddenly make a microchip out of tin instead of silicon, just to be original. The Food Network isn't going to introduce a cooking show done by a person suffering from pica. Changes almost always happen in degrees, and MMOs are no different.

I burst out in a string of insane laughter upon reading that, scaring the shit out of the child nearby getting ready for school, as I imagined just how hilarious a show like that might be.

[Deleted]

Or we can agree you're wrong and are trying to troll this thread. That works too.

OFC anyone having anything remotely negative to say about your preferred game is a troll.

Well i can play that game too biodrone.



Just go on torstatus.net and see your beloved game steadily declining even since holyday ended.

Infracted for both the offensive video and your general conduct in this thread.

[gualdhar]

I burst out in a string of insane laughter upon reading that, scaring the shit out of the child nearby getting ready for school, as I imagined just how hilarious a show like that might be.

Next on the Food Network: Mud pies and Screwdrivers.

[saberon]

Pinning Resolve - Your Force Lift affects 2 additional Standard or Weak targets.

Kinda like AoE Hex.. uhh sheep... uhh... ? NO? IS THAT AN ORIGINAL TALENT? DEAR GOD!


Edit:

Containment - Breaking your CC causes stun
Kinetic Collapse - Exploding Stun Shield


Fairly sure those are original.

[Glorious Leader]

OFC anyone having anything remotely negative to say about your preferred game is a troll.

Well i can play that game too biodrone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzwdN1RtyM

Just go on torstatus.net and see your beloved game steadily declining even since holyday ended.

You know those realm stats are based off the total server caps right? and when BW increased the server cap realms that were heavy became standard right?

[gualdhar]

OFC anyone having anything remotely negative to say about your preferred game is a troll.

Well i can play that game too biodrone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpzwdN1RtyM

Just go on torstatus.net and see your beloved game steadily declining even since holyday ended.

Yes, because calling a kettle black automatically makes me a pot. I'm hardly blind to the game's failings, I just know how to contextualize them. And quite frankly I could care less how many other people play the game. I enjoy it, as do my friends, and I imagine I'll enjoy it much more when people like you go away.