Madness 10m Normal - what's going wrong?

[Deleted]

So our 5 hours per week raid guild started on Madness last night and here is the log for 3 hours or so of wipes.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hih67bovnwpi9txr/

As you can see from the log we are running 3 healers, 2 tanks, 5 dps.
Our platform order is Green -> Red -> Yellow -> Blue (note the first 2 or 3 tries were a different order).

We just can't quite seem to push through to the head phase reliably and was wondering if anyone can spot anything we've missed.

I think our dps is high enough but healing might be slightly low. Tanks both have 4 part for raid cooldowns. One of the healers in that log is quite undergeared but he was our only option at the time.

We are not quite getting the corruption down before the second impale (5-10% left usually). Blistering tentacles seem to be slowing the damage on the wing/arm too much and the bolt is killing people.

Any advice?

[Summer]

Since you have 2 tanks, you don't need to get the corruption down before the second impale. Just make sure the tanks are using CD's.

Your platform order looks solid - one thing to make it easier is to send one dps over to the blue platform on the first platform and nuke the tentacle there down to 91 % (at most -lower than that leads to the tentacle doing AoE throughout the fight). this will make it easier to clear the last platform on time without using hero or dps Cd's.

For the second phase:

Use dps cooldowns for the first wave of adds. Then nuke boss but stop dps if you're getting below 10 % - you do not want to have the boss below 5 % while handling the 2nd wave of adds, the AoE hurts too much. Pop hero for the second addwave and burn them down, then nuke the boss down. Use Dream for Shrapnel.

[Fiana]

So our 5 hours per week raid guild started on Madness last night and here is the log for 3 hours or so of wipes.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hih67bovnwpi9txr/

As you can see from the log we are running 3 healers, 2 tanks, 5 dps.
Our platform order is Green -> Red -> Yellow -> Blue (note the first 2 or 3 tries were a different order).

We just can't quite seem to push through to the head phase reliably and was wondering if anyone can spot anything we've missed.

I think our dps is high enough but healing might be slightly low. Tanks both have 4 part for raid cooldowns. One of the healers in that log is quite undergeared but he was our only option at the time.

We are not quite getting the corruption down before the second impale (5-10% left usually). Blistering tentacles seem to be slowing the damage on the wing/arm too much and the bolt is killing people.

Any advice?

Dps blistering tentacles faster. You should kill them asap. Without any excuses.

Your healing is really bad.
Your shaman healing rain uptime is pretty low. He should heal more aggressivly. Burn all the mana during healing intensive phase and then regen it with telluric currents.
Your paladin heals raid with divine light all the time. Tell him that Holy Radiance was buffed few month ago.
Your priest... he is kinda.. bad. And slow. It looks like he is clicking on spells manually or something because he got 1-2 second delays between casts. Or maybe it takes time for him to think what spell to cast next? Usually he chooses the wrong one anyways.

Ask your healers to go to their class forums, they will get a lot of interesting discoveries about how to heal with their class.

[Deleted]

I think the healing rainds issue is actually more the raids fault. I'm pretty sure people were too spread out at times to benefit from it. It would however have always had use on the melee and tanks even if the ranged were spread I admit.

The priest has just returned to the game so I know his gear is behind but in the past he has always played well.

I suspect that the deaths on elementium bolt are due to a healing weakness and as we only reached the head phase once, I don't think they were ready for the damage.

[Ineras]

I suspect that the deaths on elementium bolt are due to a healing weakness and as we only reached the head phase once, I don't think they were ready for the damage.

Make sure people are far away from the impact zone of the bolt on that fourth platform since it does less initial damage the farther you are away. Also, have your mages call out Cauterize so they can possibly get a bit extra healing to not die from it.

[Deleted]

The head phase with your dps is likely going to result into killing adds twice and killing Deathwing before the third spawn of Elementals. What we did on our first few attempts is delay Deathwings Hp from going to 5% (this will GREATLY increase raiddamage) before we had killed the 2nd adds.

All I can say is use heroism in the beginning and use it again ~10 seconds after the 2nd batch of tentacles spawned (so you have full uptime on the elementals and then Deathwing to finish him before 3rd). The tanks will take massive damage from the debuff if not killed fast enough which is easily overwhelming with the raiddamage going on. Try to save at least 1 strong healer cd for the last 5% burn.

And let your DPS use dream during this if they didn't have to use it on a Shrapnel.

[Odayaka]

Make sure people are far away from the impact zone of the bolt on that fourth platform since it does less initial damage the farther you are away. Also, have your mages call out Cauterize so they can possibly get a bit extra healing to not die from it.

What my raid does is we stack at one end of the platform (the one closest to the corruption) and have our priest drop a Power Word: Barrier over all of us to reduce initial impact damage, then our druid casts Tranq to top everyone off.

[Deleted]

dps varies from mediocre to low, healing is utter shite. Adds arent dieing fast enough as a result of said dps, and your healers lack the skill to keep up with the dmg from said adds.

Its a vicious circle.

[Ineras]

What my raid does is we stack at one end of the platform (the one closest to the corruption) and have our priest drop a Power Word: Barrier over all of us to reduce initial impact damage, then our druid casts Tranq to top everyone off.

You should be stacking beside the wing/arm thing and not the corrupted tentacle (the one that impales) as the impact zone is really close to that tentacle vs. the wing/arm thing.

[Kanaxai]

A few tips:
Green -> Red -> Yellow -> Blue is easiest, so stick with that.

As suggested, start by having a few dps on blue platform to get that arm abit low (don't go below 90%). They should jump over to green again when the mutated corruption spawns. Bloodlust can be used twice, in the start and and near the end, either 4th platform or phase 2. If you get people on blue at the beginning, you should manage to dps 4th platform before cataclysm casts without bloodlust. You can instead use that on p2 after head reaches 10%.

For bolt on 4th platform, get the entire raid to move all the way back at the arm for reduced damage on bolt impact, the further away from the landing spot - the less damage they take. They need to move before it lands. Everyone should move, except for the tank currently tanking the mutated corruption. I suggest you have the paladin tanking the 2nd impales, since he can bubble either the bolt or impale (or both if timed right) on 4th platform. We usually stack near the arm and pop raid cooldowns like barrier, tank's 4set, aura mastery etc. Just make sure everyone spreads after the landing fast, since the mutated corruption will hit with crush pretty soon after the impact.

And if your struggling with terrors on last phase, nuke one of the terrors and have the other tank taunt the remaining terror off the other tank as soon as his stacks drop.

Depending on your dps and how much health deathwing has left after killing terrors, you might want to just ignore the second set of tentacles/terrors and just nuke the boss. Tanks obviously tanking the terrors again, but this time kiting or taunting off eachother to minimize stacks, think ping pong.

[Deleted]

The bloodlust at the start and having one dps jump to blue to bring the tentacle to 91% is what I would have suggested aswell. As for your dps and healing looking low, it's normal mode and it shouldn't be an issue as long as the 3rd and 4th elementium bolt impact are cd'd through by Aura Mastery and something else (probably a good idea to AM and a tank 4 piece thingy on 3rd and AM and SL on the 4th with your setup, not sure though). Also, the bolt needs to die within seconds, so having the dps macro it for faster targetting might work. Maybe you guys need to spread out more right after the impact because the corruption will still smash the raid and that will make it hard for the healers to heal back up.

Dps needs to be sure they have personal cd's available or potions for the last platform nukage on the tentacle, preferably both at once. It looks like you aren't using pots at all now?

You only need to worry about killing the corruption before the 2nd impale if you are doing a 1 tank 2 healer 7 dps tactic btw. If the dps is high enough, this is a very viable tactic. You probably shouldn't try it though :P

And for the 2nd phase, keep DW above 10%, make sure people can track their Shrapnel debuff, big healing needed on tanks there when tanking the big adds, tank them in the bubble, nuke them down, have each tank pick one up, mark one with a skull. Blow Bloodlust when the adds are dead and bring DW to as low as possible. If a 2nd batch spawns, look at his health, if it's 3-4% you could probably ignore the adds, if it's higher you should rinse and repeat the add killing.

[Deleted]

We 2 heal the fight, Blowing hero on the last platform to get the tentacle down before the bolt spawns.
Phase 2 : Kill adds get head to 11% Wait for adds, kill them then burn till dead.
Remember to have all classes that have immunity's to use them for the last bolt.

[Deleted]

dps varies from mediocre to low, healing is utter shite. Adds arent dieing fast enough as a result of said dps, and your healers lack the skill to keep up with the dmg from said adds.

Its a vicious circle.

Thanks for the helpful insight. The dps is actually not that bad imo.

I'll get more stacking going on when we next go. Thanks for the tips on weakening the blue platform, we'll give that a try too.

---------- Post added 2012-01-24 at 02:45 PM ----------

As for your dps and healing looking low, it's normal mode and it shouldn't be an issue as long as the 3rd and 4th elementium bolt impact are cd'd through by Aura Mastery and something else (probably a good idea to AM and a tank 4 piece thingy on 3rd and AM and SL on the 4th with your setup, not sure though).

The 3rd bolt isn't detonating unless the melee get too tunnel visioned and don't switch early enough.

[Deleted]

The 3rd bolt isn't detonating unless the melee get too tunnel visioned and don't switch early enough.

Ah I mixed up the colors, my bad! More cd's available for the final bolt then

[Deleted]

In terms of the dps figures. What are people expected to pull in this fight generally? The two mages and the DK in that parse are probably the only people running over 390 ilvl and I know the mages felt the lack of the 8% spell damage debuff so they would have been noticably higher with this.

I don't really feel anyone in that parse is low for their gear (DPS-wise) but maybe I'm wrong?

[Greydawn]

In terms of the dps figures. What are people expected to pull in this fight generally? The two mages and the DK in that parse are probably the only people running over 390 ilvl and I know the mages felt the lack of the 8% spell damage debuff so they would have been noticably higher with this.

I don't really feel anyone in that parse is low for their gear (DPS-wise) but maybe I'm wrong?

The dps #'s look acceptable to me. The rogue should be higher. Everyone else could be a bit higher but only by putting in some research many players aren't interested in doing, they aren't holding you back.

I would advise against the 1 tank setup for your raid.

Your combat rogue should be: blade flurrying off the burning tentacles, blade flurrying+killingspree the hemo bloods, and CoS+Bladeflurry from the corruption to the 4th platform bolt. He appears to instead be fan of knives'ing and rarely using killingspree. His Slice and Dice uptime is ~55%. This should be much closer to 95% on this fight.

I'd suggest visiting some more heroic firelands if your guild can find the time. There look to be some gaps in your gear that would benefit greatly from upgrades you can find there.

*Edit* Love your rogue's name <3

[zuke8675309]

In the parse offered, while the healing isn't great, it isn't horrible either. I think you probably have enough dps and healing to complete the encounter. Depending on how close you are to downing the Mutated Corruption before the 2nd Impale you might want to consider having your prot warrior go dps if he has the gear. More dps will lower the healing requirement and your paladin can certainly solo tank the encounter if you have enough dps.

As in most encounters, Madness is easier with more dps and better target switching.

In most of the attempts I looked at, the raid died from Burning Blood.

The first reaction people will have is to blame healers and say heal harder. That's possibly true.
However, it's also possible & probable that Blistering Tentacles aren't single target dps'd fast enough or that raid cooldowns aren't used. You should expect 2 sets of Blistering Tentacles each platform. Plan a rotation so that you have a cooldown up each set of Blistering Tentacles - especially on the last 2 platforms. In fact you can probably just rotate Divine Guardian and Aura Mastery for each set of tentacles and then use Spirit Link and Divine Hymn for the 4th platform Elementium Bolt and Phase 2.

[Andra-Arts]

If you're running with three heals and a paladin tank you can solo tank it, the terrors will do MASSIVE damage though will need focus healing on the tank (when I say a lot I mean A FUCKING SHITLOAD) For the second impale while it's casting your paladin can use either bubble since it's a physical attack just make sure he clicks it off before the tentacle swipes a DPS.

With the extra DPS you should be able to DPS down blistering tentacles etc much quicker.

[Spotnick]

Always 1 tank 2 healed that thing.. seems like 2 tanks 3 heals might be a huge loss of dps?

I have yet to see the tank survive the last platform, but we just rez him and burn the boss then.

[Greydawn]

As to the last three posts I still think you should 2 tank. Zuke is quite right about the Burning Blood/Blistering Tentacle issue. His cooldown recommendation seems solid along with his critique. Dps need to single target blistering tentacles down asap. That needs to be emphasized probably multiple times. They also function strangely with aoe so make sure people aren't trying to aoe them down.

To Andraz's suggestion: my raid tried this and everytime the pally bubble'd the 2nd impale a melee died. It might work fine if you time it right, but its risky.