"Arena Cap" gaming has to be eliminated.

[Deleted]

Oh man i though i was the only guy who felt like this, im certainly not it seems.
Arena have go big time down hill, so sad, im actually not quite sure, what they have done, and how to fix it, but those ideas. 1+ for sure, should be posted at blizz forum.

Tho i hate, when i shall get my cap, im no bad pvp'er. I just team up with a random from Trade, and we meet shit load of 2k+ players, and they literally rape our asses.

[Jurwi]

I'm not going to touch the ranked arena subject. You guys that are into serious Arena ranking do what you're doing, this thread is not for you.

I'm talking about Arena for Caps strictly. This is simply a part of the game that is practically broken: The reason for this is the following:

- It is easier to do it than striving for success in a regular Battleground.

Regular Battlegrounds will be random and can be partly premade but they require strategy and some effort, and even if they are premade they still need time. It will not be handed to you in 10 minutes of mediocre gaming, especially if you don't premake a 5man.

In arena though what you do is the following:

- Fine another player, any player, he just has to be slightly better than completely useless. Not even pvp gear is needed

- Enter the arena without delay

- Even if you lose that works gradually to give you even worse teams.

- Arena Cap reached in about 10 to 20 minutes, depending on skill (which doesn't have to be high).


Now, how to address this: Two approaches

1) Keep the difficulty (easy)

2) Make it harder


If you keep the difficulty easy there is an obvious solution:

- Make BGs (regular BGs) give more Conquest. i.e. I estimate a fair number - that compared well to Arena 2's cap - is 200 to 250 each win.

This is not at all unfair because remember, the option was 1) to keep difficulty same with Arena cap.

Now, if we go to making it harder, one can simply give 2's "for cap" less than those huge numbers they get. e.g. Give them only 50 or max 80. Perhaps raise it if the ranking is higher.

Regular BGs are not ment to be done for conquests anyway. They are for honor. Regular BG giving Conquest Points would also encourage leeching even more. Is it not enough that people leech their starter gear? Do you also want them to continue doing so for CP?

[Arazen]

absolutely this ^^^^^ in the same way raids are now made for the *casual* then so too are arenas now... i got nothing against allowing players to see all content and get shinies to make em happy etc, but come on, gotta draw the line somewhere...

It's important, that new players try out arena and they should NOT be roflstomped by higher rated teams, because of knowledge AND gear disadvantage. If you want arenas to be competitive, those gear issues need to go.

[TaurenNinja]

The best solution is this: One should earn more points per random battleground win, with a similar system to the daily dungeons: you can cap if you play 1 day per week, or 7 times whenever you want to. Then you have reached your conquest cap. (And it will always be 7 times, no matter how high your cap is)
Then, everyone would have the option to do either arena for cap, or simply battlegrounds. Whatever they prefer. They'll get their gear.
PvP shouldn't be about gear anyway, just about how well you play. I know that it's an additional element of fun and work to do something for your gear, but in the end it's unfair to those with new characters. In PvP multiplayer games, everyone should have the same starting equipment/stats/level. To make it even from the start. Baseline resilience in 5.0 is a good change that works towards this goal.

[invader]

thinkin about this more tho, the people who do *serious* arena aint gonna care 2 hoots who else gets conq capped each week and gets geared etc etc.. i spose at end of day its the rating you get in your arena team and titles etc that show who's pro at arena and who aint..... the peeps who just do arena for conq cap just to get conq gear are gonna be limited by the gear they can get anyway. they wont be getting to super arena gear cos they wont have the rating i doubt... so tbh i dont see this as a problem the more i think of it

[Brewski]

Why does arena capping even bother you? A lot of extremely skilled players don't bother for high ratings until later on in the season. No one is going to go for glad in the first week, so people will point cap & wait.

[mosse]

You win 8 arena games in 10-20 minutes with some random from trade without pvp gear? right.

This new system is miles better than it used to be, now you actually have to win to get the points and not just lose 10 games like it used to be.

I don't really see any problem here

[Socialhealer]

Now, it is much , much better. You know that 98% of the reason you were beaten was skill.

actually its 2% skill 98% your class is underpowered an theirs is overpowered, i play ele shaman rogues chance to win if hes not mentally retarded 100%, there is no ele shaman in the world that can beat a rogue who knows how to play.

[Flaks]

Be happy that you get conquest from random bgs. Random bgs are a cesspool of lazy players in bad/ungemmed/unenchanted gear, some of which are botting, most of which are bad. I don't mind if its a slow option, but it shouldn't be any where near arena as far as speed goes. I personally have much more fun playing Arena with friends for points or rating than I do in any bg - random or rated.

I don't think you've ever inspected the gear of a lot of the folks doing arenas for points lol.

I agree though that random bg's should provide more conquest. I think MoP is going in the right direction if I remember correctly. Its going to have a single currency for PvP and a single one for PvE. The next step is a universal currency for everything so you can PvP for that PvE gear if you want.

The BoJ thing worked fairly well in gating people from getting really amazing gear right away but still being able to get it if they were patient. Higher prices for newer rewards makes more sense than an entirely new currency.

[Deleted]

- Arena Cap reached in about 10 to 20 minutes, depending on skill (which doesn't have to be high).

Right now I need 10 wins per week for the cap. That is alone 10 minutes of waiting til the arena starts plus up to 15 minutes per match if it's healer/dps vs healer/dps. I also don't win every match.

That's far away from just 20 minutes.

[Deleted]

How about making match-making rating based on gear? Then new players, fresh 85s won't meet full Rele players in their first arena.

[Deleted]

^ I think they have a problem with the number of teams on this one. Once I was trying to get around 1600. Well, while many of the teams were 1550-ish we got rarely some ~1800. That was a clear sign the system didn't have that many teams to give.

And many 1400~ teams, that were 'cap teams' supposedly or just beginners/try-outs. The system gave the idea there were not enough teams to go around. If the gear was also locked, it would be limited, perhaps at least long queue times.

And in general, it's a non-issue to me: gear should be equal-ish. Good players should want it. I wouldn't want to be called overgeared every time I win anyone. That was the norm back in the day when all the gear was locked to high ratings.

[Naraga]

How about making match-making rating based on gear? Then new players, fresh 85s won't meet full Rele players in their first arena.

Then a 1500 team could queue into a 2700 team with the same gear.

Nice system that would be

[Deleted]

Then a 1500 team could queue into a 2700 team with the same gear.

Nice system that would be

People would still be getting same geared opponents, that is the whole point. To take it to the extreme, everyone entering arena match could chose any pvp gear.

[GrieverXIII]

They just need to bring back rating requirement on gear, on weapons at least and add blue scaling across seasons PvP craftable weapons, like the current blue sets so people start decently. Idk, just feels that if you're not 2200+ capable, there's very little reason to even try to get rating since there's no rewards from it outside more points.

[Deleted]

I don't like the twist of "lock the gear but don't let the good ones play with me". It separates the game into beginners and the veterans and they never play with each other. Then how do you prove you are good? Maybe you were lucky and went early in the expansion.

This is unneeded. All should have the same gear and the same opportunity to prove to all they are good or they are bad. The mistakes of BC and WOTLK where people couldn't prove they were good and they were called overgeared - and they deserved it - should not be remade.

[Fiana]

Arena cap is stupid by itself.
But not only arena cap is bad. PvP gear is bad. PvP gear should be removed from game.

All players that queue into arena should be in exactly the same gear, or fight will be unfair. No legendary weapons, no insane pve trinkets, no blue crafted gear vs full pvp gear, ALL players on arena should have normalized gear of the same itemlevel.

This fill fix like half of the wow pvp problems.

And not only pvp, but some pve problems as well, because we will never see players in pvp gear in lfd/lfr again.

[Deleted]

^ I definitely agree that the arbitrary gear model only works in PvE which is basically a dragon that doesn't care to call you overgeared and that dragon gradually becomes harder by the system according to your gear. The game is designed for that.

But in PvP, in any PvP, in any game in the world, you do not want overgeared opponents. You do not even want to be yourself overgeared. You'll be called a bully rather than a victor most of the time. Actually that was the case before the recent changes that gave most people good gear relatively easily.

It's perfect as it is, or at least better.

They could remove gear completely, in PvP, but even as it is now it's not preposterous. As I see it it's basically practically "the same gear" with some variations since everyone can get decent gear a week after dinging and for something much more he can wait, but, it won't be a spectacular change. And even if you are too late, next season/expansion comes soon and it resets.

Even the PvE items and other such tricks are not as important as people think they are (e.g. yes I could stack mastery on my mage with PvE items but will I really be better? I would need the skill to avoid damage. Do I have it? It's not easy). But, they are also addressed as Blizzard said as well, making them worse in next patches.

[Deleted]

I kinda like that you don't have to play a lot to just cap out. Imo, it allows you to have more fun in general.

However, I don't like the way the seasons work. I'm currently leveling a rogue for pvp cause I got tired of my previous char. When my rogue gets to level 85, I will farm honor gear no problem in a week. I think that's a great system. However, there is no way in hell I will catch up to the guys decked in arena / RBG gear, which I think sucks. In my opinion, ranks should be made to ENABLE you to buy the gear for honor or whatever, so that alt characters, if played properly, could get decked in full arena gear if the player's skill justified it.

I dunno if you'll agree with me on this one, but I just find it really frustrated that this new char that I really like will be way behind in terms of gear until the next arena season pretty much regardless of what I do :'(

[Korgoth]

Is he seriously trying to argue that getting Conquest points through Arena should be made harder since its easier then through random battlegrounds? You do get that you can cap out in random bgs by using a bot or being afk right? That it can require 0 player involvement. So you should be able to bot your cata gear faster?

I'm currently leveling a rogue for pvp cause I got tired of my previous char. When my rogue gets to level 85, I will farm honor gear no problem in a week. I think that's a great system. However, there is no way in hell I will catch up to the guys decked in arena / RBG gear, which I think sucks. In my opinion, ranks should be made to ENABLE you to buy the gear for honor or whatever, so that alt characters, if played properly, could get decked in full arena gear if the player's skill justified it.

Yeah except player skill means jack shit in a game with this bad of class balance. Which is evidenced by the huge number of terrible rogues currently 2400+. Oh look you're rerolling rogue. It does not take that long to gear out if you are that skilled since that would mean you are high rated and know people and those people could rbg you to 3k+ points a week the first week you are 85, and in a couple months, you are max pvp geared. Leaving you with probably 3 - 4 months of the season left after you are fully geared out. I don't think they should implement a system that allows people to fotm reroll easier.