Heroic Madness extending a raid lockout

[Deleted]

Hello,

We just killed spine heroic and want to extend our raid ID from what i have read we can extend on an alt (my druid who was in on the kill)

can the raid then clear DS so madness on normal while my druid extends the 7/8 would it then be ok on Wednesday to clear 7/8 on normal and join my druids save or in order to extend can we not kill madness normal im only asking this because all i need is a madness kill for legendary and im trying to work out a way to extend and also get the legendary any help would be appreciated!

Edit: i have explained it pretty badly but pretty much want to know how i can kill madness and be able to join an extended lockout for madness

Edit: (What i was trying to say explained better by Kaib)

neither of you understands what he wants to do.
they got a 7/8 heroic instance ID, lets call that ID A. Chances are they won't kill madness today (mostly because tabs is a baddie) and want to extent it so they don't have to 'waste' time on their 2nd spine kill and can instead progress on madness.
So today after wiping some on madness, the instance is set to normal and they kill the encounter (without zoyt's druid in the raid, but that shouldn't even matter).

As that is a normal kill, ID A should still be 7/8 heroic as the normal madness kill shouldn't get saved as it's normal, right?

So on Wendesday everything resets and they clear 7/8 DS normal (for trinkets, set items I guess?), but no one gets locked to an ID here as everything is done on normal. Then Zoyt logs his druid and extents the 7/8 heroic from ID A and everyone joins that raid ID.

From how I understand it, that should work just fine. Afaik the madness kill in the current weeks reset should not get locked to ID A as it's on normal. Never tried that though, so no guarantees.

[Zheryn]

i have explained it pretty badly but pretty much want to know how i can kill madness and be able to join an extended lockout for madness

No matter how you do, you will never be able to kill the same boss more than once per week on each character (excluding LFR). I suggest you extend it, progress on it and then remove the extend at the end of the week if you are unable to kill it and clear the first 7 hc bosses again.

[fuzedd]

if you enter a heroic instance that has 1 or more bosses dead already you get saved. even if you do not kill any bosses.

[kaib]

neither of you understands what he wants to do.
they got a 7/8 heroic instance ID, lets call that ID A. Chances are they won't kill madness today (mostly because tabs is a baddie) and want to extent it so they don't have to 'waste' time on their 2nd spine kill and can instead progress on madness.
So today after wiping some on madness, the instance is set to normal and they kill the encounter (without zoyt's druid in the raid, but that shouldn't even matter).

As that is a normal kill, ID A should still be 7/8 heroic as the normal madness kill shouldn't get saved as it's normal, right?

So on Wendesday everything resets and they clear 7/8 DS normal (for trinkets, set items I guess?), but no one gets locked to an ID here as everything is done on normal. Then Zoyt logs his druid and extents the 7/8 heroic from ID A and everyone joins that raid ID.

From how I understand it, that should work just fine. Afaik the madness kill in the current weeks reset should not get locked to ID A as it's on normal. Never tried that though, so no guarantees.

[Aqua]

Hmmm never done it that way but I can't see any way it wouldn't work...

[Ibramgaunt]

Not the answer you're looking for, but I'd suggest not to extend. There's no point in extending now, the nerf WILL come tomorrow. I can understand extending the week before nerfs to make sure you kill il pre-nerf, but post-nerf, might as well collect the gear from 7/8 then go back to Madness.

That being said, some peopel just don't want to go through Spine a second time and I understand that. Kaib pretty much got it figured out, make sure that NO BOSSES are killed in heroic, not even attempted to make sure it works and I think it should be fine, but I never tried something like that before so I really don't know for sure.

[kaib]

well, I understand their logic, there's no real reason to skill spine, is there? Might still take them more then an hour and in the worst case a whole evening. The gear shouldn't matter that much at this point (as madness supposedly is easier then spine anyway AND there's a 5% nerf), so why risk it?
The gear you are farming right now is essentially semi-useless leveling gear for an expansion that is faaaaaar away. I'd extent it too IF i was sure it wouldn't screw me over. I thikn it won't, but there's surely a small chance left still.

[Kaykay]

Yeah, Kaib hit it straight on the head.

Main point

Do not turn heroic on at any time during the normal clear, or you will get saved.

You only get 1 heroic save per week, whereas normal is just individual bosses, not working in the same way.

[tenub]

kaib is 100% correct. We did this a couple weeks ago after our spine kill. I can confirm it works flawlessly so long as your raid leader isn't stupid and for some reason switches the instance to heroic while you're clearing 7/8N.

[Ayreon]

As far as I know it will work.

[Cleve]

We did this exactly for one of our rogues (though it was just to get him clusters, not the daggers at the time). We used it as an opportunity to do the mount achives in normal mode while still killing heroic madness. Just follow kaib's direction and NEVER set the normal clear to heroic at any point. Blizzard will not be helpful with this if you screw it up. Just ask pie chart.

[Deleted]

We did this exactly for one of our rogues (though it was just to get him clusters, not the daggers at the time). We used it as an opportunity to do the mount achives in normal mode while still killing heroic madness. Just follow kaib's direction and NEVER set the normal clear to heroic at any point. Blizzard will not be helpful with this if you screw it up. Just ask pie chart.

Does that also include the normal madness kill tonight so if we wanted to kill him after our heroic attempts we need to disband the raid and make sure we enter on normal and kill him?

[Geni]

It will NOT work. As soon as you switch to heroic (after you killed atleast one boss in the raid) you get saved with a raid ID.

If you kill Madness on normal it will be saved to the raid ID and everyone with that raid ID will be locked out for 8/8.

It's only normalmodes that doesn't use raid ID, but as soon as you kill a boss on heroic or switch to heroic after killing a boss on normal you will be saved.

Same thing applies to heroic 25 and heroic 10 man. You can't do both raidsizes the same week. If you kill first boss on heroic 25 then you won't be able to kill any bosses in 10 heroic for that week and all bosses you kill on normal (10man or 25man) after that point will lock out everyone that were in the first 25man heroic raid.

[Deleted]

It will NOT work. As soon as you switch to heroic (after you killed atleast one boss in the raid) you get saved with a raid ID.

If you kill Madness on normal it will be saved to the raid ID and everyone with that raid ID will be locked out for 8/8.

It's only normalmodes that doesn't use raid ID, but as soon as you kill a boss on heroic or switch to heroic after killing a boss on normal you will be saved.

Same thing applies to heroic 25 and heroic 10 man. You can't do both raidsizes the same week. If you kill first boss on heroic 25 then you won't be able to kill any bosses in 10 heroic for that week and all bosses you kill on normal (10man or 25man) after that point will lock out everyone that were in the first 25man heroic raid.

Did you read the rest of the post or just read my OP (which i read back and is aload of gibberish)?

[lunchbox2042]

If you kill Deathwing on normal while saved to a heroic raid id then it would save to that id. The only way to extend is not kill madness on normal.

[Jinto]

Ignore the people that says it is not possible as they are clueless. Anyway what you are suggesting OP is perfectly doable. A lot of guilds did it that way (though I think it is better to just forget the normal clear but hey its your daggers). I know for the US guilds Dread, Pie Chart (they fucked up their lockout too lool but a GM fixed it for them) etc did exactly what you suggested.

p.s. Just to reiterate what you should do: Save 7/8H on an alt, clear 7/8N on mains next lockout and zone in to the 7/8H lockout saved from previous week.

edit: its Dread not Demise that did this (though Demise might have done the same dunno).

[Raelbo]

I believe Geni is correct:

As soon as you kill a boss in heroic mode, you become saved to an instance ID. That ID remembers all the bosses killed in it, including normal kills.

So if you go ahead and kill madness on normal mode tonight it will add the kill to the raid ID for your Druid too, even if he isn't there. Which means that he will not be able to use that lock next week.

However, if you do not kill madness this week, the rest of the group can run all the way to Spine on normal difficulty. Your druid can then join the raid with his heroic ID and you will all be able to go to heroic madness.

[Deleted]

Ignore the people that says it is not possible as they are clueless. Anyway what you are suggesting OP is perfectly doable. A lot of guilds did it that way (though I think it is better to just forget the normal clear but hey its your daggers). I know for the US guilds Demise, Pie Chart (they fucked up their lockout too lool but a GM fixed it for them) etc did exactly what you suggested.

p.s. Just to reiterate what you should do: Save 7/8H on an alt, clear 7/8N on mains next lockout and zone in to the 7/8H lockout saved from previous week.

This is where all the confusion is some say X others say Y so now i have no idea what to do!

[Raelbo]

Ignore the people that says it is not possible as they are clueless. Anyway what you are suggesting OP is perfectly doable.

I don't think you are understanding fully what he is asking. He is suggesting 2 things and still keep the lockout:

1) He wants to kill Madness on Normal tonight;
2) He wants to kill up to and including Spine on Normal after the reset.

The first part is NOT possible. The second part IS possible.

If anyone saved to the heroic ID enters a raid tonight and proceeds to kill Madness, even on normal, it will save the kill on that ID.

p.s. Just to reiterate what you should do: Save 7/8H on an alt, clear 7/8N on mains next lockout and zone in to the 7/8H lockout saved from previous week.

This is correct.

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 05:02 PM ----------

If you want to test this out safely, here is how I suggest you do it.

Go to BWD;
Kill Magmaw in Heroic mode with your alt.
Switch your alt out of the instance, and kill Onmotron Defense System in Normal.
Check your alt's instance lock for BWD.

I expect that he would be saved to both bosses, and if this is indeed the case, you would know to NOT kill madness tonight.

[Wilderness]

I don't think you are understanding fully what he is asking. He is suggesting 2 things and still keep the lockout:

1) He wants to kill Madness on Normal tonight;
2) He wants to kill up to and including Spine on Normal after the reset.

The first part is NOT possible. The second part IS possible.

If anyone saved to the heroic ID enters a raid tonight and proceeds to kill Madness, even on normal, it will save the kill on that ID.



This is correct.

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 05:02 PM ----------

If you want to test this out safely, here is how I suggest you do it.

Go to BWD;
Kill Magmaw in Heroic mode with your alt.
Switch your alt out of the instance, and kill Onmotron Defense System in Normal.
Check your alt's instance lock for BWD.

I expect that he would be saved to both bosses, and if this is indeed the case, you would know to NOT kill madness tonight.

Hmm, my impression was that what he wanted to do (killing madness on normal this week but extending the 7/8 heroic lockout on an alt) would work. However, you do have a good point in that it would be fairly easy to test with magmaw/ods and if I were them I would put in that little bit of time just to make sure.