Guild Bound Items! Solution to "Im undergeared!" and "another crap to DE drop" issue.

[Deleted]

Introduction
Game becomes more and more gear dependant and with that we see more issues which could be easily fixed. Two of them which we see most often is "I'm undergeared" excuse by various players who blame their peformance on sub-par gear which in reality isnt the only source of possible good peformance. Another one "Another crap to DE drop" for some guilds where a certain item no one currently needs in the raid group drops and makes the effort for killing the boss all the less worthwhile. Here is how it would work:

1) How to make an item into guild-bound drop?
- This could be done via Master-looter ability in which the item can either be dispensed to players or given to the guild to keep it. This rule applies only to groups where Master-looter is avaiable. In other words NO POSSIBILITY TO MAKE RAID FINDER OR DUNGEON FINDER GEAR GUILD BOUND!
- New "contribute item" in the guild depo would be avaiable which would allow to contribute items to the guild. The contributed items would then go through the process of approval by the guild master or his officers if they are allowed.

2) What is a guild-bound item traits?
- it cannot be traded
- it cannot be disenchanted or deleted unless by approval of guild master or appointed people by him (example: officers)
- it cannot be sold to a vendor
- it cannot be put into auction house
- it can ONLY be enchanted/gemed/reforged by guild master or appointed people by him (example: officers)
- it can only be used by guild members appointed by guild master or officers if they are allowed.

3) What happens to a guild-bound item worn by a player who is leaving the guild which the mentioned item is bound to?
The item returns to the guild deposit leaving the item slot of the leaving character empty.

Questions and Anwsers:
Q: What if I all my gear is guild bound and I decide to leave the guild? Why should I be stranded naked?
A: Why did you allowed to such a situation to begin with? There's plenty of other gear you can get your hands on without guild's approval. Raid Finder and Dungeon Finder gear are not subjects to guild binding but player binding. You can get gear by other means then just depending on your guild's raid drops.

Q: WTF! Why did you killed guild hopping and guild poaching! No point doing it anymore! FUUU!
A: Blow me guild hopper/poacher.

Q: So if for example my guild run kills Warmaster Blackhorn and Shadow Wing Armbands while we have no feral druid, rogue or hunter in the group. Rather than giving it to a druid healer's offspec or DEing can we instead make the item guildbound for possible future use if someone who can use it will join the guild?
A: Yes you can. That's what the guildbound items are designed for.

Q: What will happen with current epics or legendaries?
A: Nothing. The items before the introduction of guildbound system will remain bound to whatever players currently have them. It is possible however that those items could be contributed to the guild if the player who can contribute the item wishes so.

Q: How would this work out for future legendaries?
A: Depends on how Blizzard would decide to handle them.
1) If they would believe that legendaries should become guildbound items they could scrap the idea of getting them via quests or avoiding mechanics that would automaticly bound the legendaries to the player as it is currently now. (less likely scenario)
2) If they decide that legendaries should be made guildbound by contribution then the best way to guarantee it is helping out in the questline only the trusted members of the guild. (more likely scenario)
3) or they wont make legendaries avaiable to guildbounding. (most likely scenario)

Q: What about the current avaiable legendaries?
A: Lets go through the list:
Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker - only avaiable through quests so only possible to contribute it.
Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros - only avaiable through comibing Sulfuron Hammer with Eye of Sulfuras. However Sulfuron Ignot and Eye of Sulfuras could be subjects to guildbounding via masterloot to guildbound or contributing it.
Atiesh, GreatStaff of the Guardian - not avaiable anymore so only possible to contribute it.
Warglaive of Azzinoth - they drop so they can be masterlooted to guildbound or contributed to the guild.
Thori'dal, The Star's Fury - same as Warglaives.
Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings - obtained only via quest so only possible to contribute it.
Shadowmourne - same as above.
Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest - same as above.
Fangs of the Father - same as above.

Q: What items are allowed to become guildbound?
A: Any equipment item which is BoE, unlooted BoPs and unlooted/looted Legendaries. (Legendaries most unlikely to be subject of guildbounding at all).

So what do you guys think about it?

[Deleted]

I guess people would start buying raid items more often, seeing as you don't even need to bring people to your raids in order to sell them gear. I think bigger raiding guilds with a lot of different raid groups would become a lot more common if this was implemented in the game.

[Aryiez]

No, just, no.
People being in raid gear without ever stepping into one?
Officers gearing alts and friends.
Might as well just give everyone the current tier gear when they hit cap.

O, NVM, do it, I can gear all my alts without ever doing anything on them.

[Omertocracy]

- it can ONLY be enchanted/gemed/reforged by guild master or appointed people by him (example: officers)

Should be fully customizable by the recipient.

Q: What if I all my gear is guild bound and I decide to leave the guild? Why should I be stranded naked?

Items should follow normal looting procedure once given. Guild leaders should trust their people not to derp it up by vending it. Loots to guild bank. GM/officer hands to person who wasn't there. Their problem from then on.

Q: So if for example my guild run kills Warmaster Blackhorn and Shadow Wing Armbands while we have no feral druid, rogue or hunter in the group. Rather than giving it to a druid healer's offspec or DEing can we instead make the item guildbound for possible future use if someone who can use it will join the guild?

Should go to Druid Healer who has proper OS at that point, but that is case-specific basis.

Q: How would this work out for future legendaries?
3) or they wont make legendaries avaiable to guildbounding. (most likely scenario)

This.

Q: What items are allowed to become guildbound?
A: Any equipment item which is BoE, unlooted BoPs
So what do you guys think about it?

BoEs are BoE. They wouldn't need Guild Looted.

All these points aside, I see a loophole in this big enough to drive a Mack Truck through:
Item Drops. It is a clear upgrade for someone there. GM Guild loots item and gives it to a person who wasn't there anyway.

[Lochton]

Tormenting to think about, but good idea still...

Sounds like we are pushing the trolly a bit too much for people, I do like the initiative, but really don't think we should extend a hand in this direction. People have and will always need to work to get themselves armored and raided to shine for the guild. Sorry to state this, but in the end, wouldn't you want to say that you've handled the raid and is proud of your composed items than saying, "Well, we did it guys, now go back to the bank and put the gear back in the vault".

An "A" in initiative, but I do not support this idea to be build up. The game is by many eyes seen as "too easy". Sadly to pin this on people, but most of the people stating this are high level players. So why make it easier for them? Make your guild leader find the whip, slash them across the back and tell them to get working for gear if they wish to join a raid group, even if it's just because they wish to try a different specc.

In the end, the hunt for gear is also a great group shaker, bringing the guild together hunting for peoples need. Gives a few good laughs. Just like back when you had to get ready for Karazhan (just example). By giving this system, you basicly narrows down the whole teamwork plot to that you only need to meet during raids. I know this might not be the intention, but that is how we know it'll end up with.

So instead, please, work together and bring each other up to your needs, and join in the fights. More fun to fight with your own gear than having the little mark on your gear saying "Please deliver your borrowed socks to the vault after use. P.s. Repair them first".

[Deleted]

Blizzard doesn't go for a guild oriented system, but to a unit oriended system.
A system like that is fair to a degree and not fair to a different degree.
The team works for the kill, the team diserves the reward.
But.
The individual is a part of the team thus he is entitled to get a reward (his share) regrdless a future decision of his to leave his guild.
Leaving a guild can happen for a million different reasons, sometimes it is not even players choice but GM choice to remove player X from the guild.

Still, TBC raiding model had a single flaw, and that was the guilds working for attuning and gearing people, and as they were getting ready to progress those people were jumping to a more progressed guild upon request.

To solve this you need to create a guild weapon and armor storage, but you cant make it work with ALL the items guild bound.
Upon first time you loot, and only then a given item, an identical item is added to your guild bank.
The winner gets to keep his item upon leaving but guild has the gear to make up for someone that leaves the guild or goes afk.
People that are joining raids fresh can be assigned with guilds weaponry but the item returns to the guild bank upon logging out, pretty much as flasks for guild cauldrons despawn as you re logging out.
Legendaries should be exlusively guild bound, provided that all the work to obtain them requires teamwork.
I don't know how this can work, but the idea of people picking up weapons to do a guild fight from a guild's armory, enchances the team spirit in your game play.

It is complicated, but a system like that worth going for.

[Kanaxai]

Good idea tbh. A little part of me dies when we disenchant hc gear in our 10m guild after everyone already has that item for ms and os, yet my alt could have needed that exact item. However, some restrictions would have been needed before this could be implented. For instance, only members exalted (possibly revered) with the guild in question should be eligiable, otherwise people would just join random guilds to buy gear. And gear should only be eligiable to be guild-bound if the group clearing was a guildgroup; 8 of 10 guildies in a 10 man group for instance.

[Deleted]

No, just, no.
People being in raid gear without ever stepping into one?

And getting out of them just as fast, never to be accepted in that guild agian if they prove to be not up to the standard the guild expects them to have.

Officers gearing alts and friends.

And then explaining themselves toward their GM why they suck...

Might as well just give everyone the current tier gear when they hit cap.

How do guild give out gear is exactly dependant on them. If guilds are competent enough to actually clear normal/heroic mode then they are competent enough to figure out that giving gear to random people is a bad idea.

O, NVM, do it, I can gear all my alts without ever doing anything on them.

Good for you. I wish to know what kind of guild you have in mind which just so give you out the gear and expect nothing in return.

Should be fully customizable by the recipient.
Items should follow normal looting procedure once given. Guild leaders should trust their people not to derp it up by vending it. Loots to guild bank. GM/officer hands to person who wasn't there. Their problem from then on.

Problem is there are instances where trusting people backfires agianst them. First Dragonwrath is a great example of this. Also even if a guild derps out to the point of gearing wrong people, that very thing will backfire agianst them when they see those very same underserving people wipe them. Dont worry... gear is not enough and guilds who think otherwise will suffer for it. At the same time gear is important enough to not make it feel like getting it for someone was a wasted process.

Should go to Druid Healer who has proper OS at that point, but that is case-specific basis.

Indeed... and guildbound would give more options in those case-specific basis. But still guildbound items would make both happy parties. Here... look at this:
1) Guild first makes bracers guildbound.
2) Then they give it to the Resto druid's offspec.
3) Restro druid uses the bacers occasionaly with his offspec.
4) New feral druid shows up whos peformance is far better than that of resto druid's offspec.
5) Guild gives the superior feral druid bracers.
Win Win on both sides...

This.

unfortunetly...

BoEs are BoE. They wouldn't need Guild Looted.

Would save guild's trouble of mass producing them and watching part of them wasted on leavers and guild hoppers. Recycling loot is very good.

All these points aside, I see a loophole in this big enough to drive a Mack Truck through:
Item Drops. It is a clear upgrade for someone there. GM Guild loots item and gives it to a person who wasn't there anyway.

and the guild is losing on reliability. Words spread and guild slowly dies. Working as intended.

Sounds like we are pushing the trolly a bit too much for people, I do like the initiative, but really don't think we should extend a hand in this direction. People have and will always need to work to get themselves armored and raided to shine for the guild. Sorry to state this, but in the end, wouldn't you want to say that you've handled the raid and is proud of your composed items than saying, "Well, we did it guys, now go back to the bank and put the gear back in the vault".

That would depend on the guild leadership. It isnt neccesary for them to bank the tools back. The point of the system is to make sure those hard earned tools dont leave the guild and help other guilds who didnt earned it.

And frankly I have no problem with that whatsoever. That would infact kill gear e-peen stroking.

An "A" in initiative, but I do not support this idea to be build up. The game is by many eyes seen as "too easy". Sadly to pin this on people, but most of the people stating this are high level players. So why make it easier for them? Make your guild leader find the whip, slash them across the back and tell them to get working for gear if they wish to join a raid group, even if it's just because they wish to try a different specc.

Getting gear alone isnt enough. If you are worried about individuals who see gear only as a penis extender then I assure you that those kind of people will be quickly stripped from their given gear as soon as they get it. It's like with raising kids. If they act nicely they get rewarded. If they misbehave then they have their toys taken untill they straighten up.

Current WoW community sure needs to straighten up.

In the end, the hunt for gear is also a great group shaker, bringing the guild together hunting for peoples need. Gives a few good laughs. Just like back when you had to get ready for Karazhan (just example). By giving this system, you basicly narrows down the whole teamwork plot to that you only need to meet during raids. I know this might not be the intention, but that is how we know it'll end up with.

Im pretty sure guild meetings and vent conversations during raids are more then just about loot. I dont know though... personally I never saw a guild that uses vent only to discuss loot.

So instead, please, work together and bring each other up to your needs, and join in the fights. More fun to fight with your own gear than having the little mark on your gear saying "Please deliver your borrowed socks to the vault after use. P.s. Repair them first".

Once agian... IT IS NOT NECCESARY TO BRING THEM BACK TO THE VAULT. What made you think that first thing a guild master or officers view on this system is to constantly keep gear under key when they dont have to as they will get it back the moment the uniformed ill-intentioned individuals try to get away with it and notice how they fail.

This system does one thing. Effectively kills guild hopping and guild poaching.

Good idea tbh. A little part of me dies when we disenchant hc gear in our 10m guild after everyone already has that item for ms and os, yet my alt could have needed that exact item. However, some restrictions would have been needed before this could be implented. For instance, only members exalted (possibly revered) with the guild in question should be eligiable, otherwise people would just join random guilds to buy gear. And gear should only be eligiable to be guild-bound if the group clearing was a guildgroup; 8 of 10 guildies in a 10 man group for instance.

What if for example a guild is in a dire need of a good feral druid who is present but not geared? Should they be forced to wait untill he reaches exalted before they can equip him to help the progress?

[Maximus4004]

As a raid leader I love this idea. The crap people will come up with to combat a good idea. I guarantee you that for every guild leader/leadership in a guild that would take these items and whore them out for unnecessary reasons there are 5 guilds that would use it for its intended need. I'd love to stop DEing BiS stuff for certain classes just because we couldn't get that class in our raid. And if you wanted to stop the loot whoring only allow an item to be given to any player once a week or something it can have limitations and it would prevent gear stacking to best bosses.

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 05:15 PM ----------

As a raid leader I love this idea. The crap people will come up with to combat a good idea. I guarantee you that for every guild leader/leadership in a guild that would take these items and whore them out for unnecessary reasons there are 5 guilds that would use it for its intended need. I'd love to stop DEing BiS stuff for certain classes just because we couldn't get that class in our raid. And if you wanted to stop the loot whoring only allow an item to be given to any player once a week or something it can have limitations and it would prevent gear stacking to best bosses.

You could also require them to be "exalted" in the guild prior to having this capability how many alts do people have that are exalted in their guilds? It would also form another layer of companionship with your guildies. And may help establish other raid groups not possible at the time due to certain limitations/factors.

Lol @ accidently Replying to my own comment....need more coffeee...

[DrakeWurrum]

What's wrong with items going to off-spec or DE?

Several people in my raids use OS gear all the time, though that's usually when somebody essential is missing or we have to cut back on or increase the number of tanks/healers. I know that if I end up rerolling Monk next expac, and I probably will, that while I plan to use DPS for my main spec, I'll work to build up a healer and tank OS in case the raids could benefit from me switching.

Items going to DE can suck, but it's also essential to have plenty of enchanting mats already in the guild. Though, typically, guild banks are so loaded that you could easily just toss gold at a raider in need of enchants, it helps to not have to spend that gold.
It may not seem like much of a reward to just get an item you could DE, but if you're only there for the loot, you're raiding for the wrong reasons.


The "problem" you're trying to solve is not something I've ever seen as a problem. Back in the day, acquiring gear meant you were a skilled raider. Nowadays, everybody has gear, but you at least need to kill the boss it dropped from. If you're decked in LFR loot, people know you never killed a normal mode boss. And if you have no Heroic loot, people know you haven't killed a Heroic-mode boss. (of course, there's armory, but that's not the point)
Now you want to give loot to people who might not even have been part of the kill. Sheesh.

Frankly, you can down normal-mode DS without ever setting foot in LFR. You can down Heroic-mode DS, without being fully-decked in normal-mode DS loot.
Everybody might not be Paragon, but the top guilds prove every single tier that skill matters more than gear. Players need to stop using gear as a crutch for progress. Gear makes it easier, but I've never seen gear as a major requirement to getting a boss down.

[Sadinar]

I hate this idea. I hate how I'd have to be beholden to a guild then with loot. Basically, if the GM ever decided to be less than friendly, not only can he kick someone from a guild, but he can also basically REMOVE THEIR GEAR upon being kicked. Think about it. GMS would hold ALL the power, and raiders none. Even if you're in a guild with people you hate, or if you suddenly find your work schedule changing and can't raid, well guess what, you just got kicked down to dungeon blues since your gear is guild-owned.

You base this off the assumption that the concept of a guild means something special, when its the concept of a RAID that means something. Plenty of raid guilds have members from multiple guilds participating, for a variety of reasons, and it works out well. But you would limit all these groups because you have gotten burned by people leaving with loot before; what you're suggesting is too extreme a measure. You ignore that it would too easily be abused; a GM and officers can easily use this system to gear out their alts, but you brush this concern aside by saying "naaah won't happen", which is foolish and simplistic.

Really, blizzard would never accept this idea because of all these flaws, mmo-champ sees a thread like this pop every month or so where someone has the brilliant idea to transfer all loot rights to the GM and yet blizzard has never added it, because it is flawed and a GM is no more trustworthy than anyone else.

[Maximus4004]

I think once the item is given its that players at that point it cant be traded around like an heirloom so deciding who gets what would be an important task. My raid does 2 10 mans due to separate time constraints my group is lucky with tank drops theirs is not we DE 4 BiS shields while their tanks both lack them. Not exactly a great approach. And I'd give them a spare shield in a heartbeat.It's not like maelstrom crystals cant be put on the AH or stolen from the guild either lol..

[ComputerNerd]

Allowing people to obtain gear from content without having to set foot in it.
No, that is already an issue with the current currency systems without adding to it.
If you want the gear, then participate in the content.

[DrakeWurrum]

It's not like maelstrom crystals cant be put on the AH or stolen from the guild either lol..

That's why you always have a trustworthy officer that can DE. Frankly, if you can't trust your raiders, why are you raiding with them?

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 11:48 AM ----------

Allowing people to obtain gear from content without having to set foot in it.
No, that is already an issue with the current currency systems without adding to it.
If you want the gear, then participate in the content.

^this guy is right on the money. Let's not make this game more casual-accessible than it already is. Casuals at least have to earn the gear still.

[Maximus4004]

That's why you always have a trustworthy officer that can DE. Frankly, if you can't trust your raiders, why are you raiding with them?

---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 11:48 AM ----------


^this guy is right on the money. Let's not make this game more casual-accessible than it already is. Casuals at least have to earn the gear still.

They would be earning it by participating in a guild capable of killing the stuff than having the bond with their raiders to share loot with them.

[flareside]

make the item only last say like 5 hours max before going back to the bank loosing all enchant/reforges/ect.
That way the person does not ALWAYS rely on that item and forces them to get other items. It will make them help perform better in raid and being in the raid will give them opportunity to gain a better item.

Edit: this can be a kind of money sink also.
Edit: This should NEVER be for legendaries.

[mitbrandir]

like 70% of all drops arent needed in my raid , so i would like this , but not for everyone in your guild , but to anyone who was actually in that run , so that they can still give it to an alt that could use it.

[Yunru]

I am ok with tier tokes only. Somethimes we lack war/hunter/sham in raid.

[Kardone]

I'd love to stop DEing BiS stuff for certain classes just because we couldn't get that class in our raid.

My favorite part is when blizz puts a BiS piece on a boss that does not favor that class and thus will be sat for progression. Good times.

[Viled]

This is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. This game is about earning achievements and gear, being able to share gear would literally destroy this game. The amount of misuse this system would cause by guilds exploting or griefing players over would be endless