[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Deleted]

...That's kind of my point. You can have a balance between making money and making art. You don't need to sacrifice EVERYTHING to make some money. Are you implying that The Beatles' later work isn't art because they wanted it to be successful? What are you TALKING about? It's not black and white.

..And did you just imply you'd prefer Bioware only focus on making money? What did I just read.

You speak of balance, but you sure tip to the far end of the scale and completly fall in the water.
I said art isnt personal when you try to get money of it, because then ITS NOT FUCKING PERSONAL.
Still art.

Cute that you decided to name a band that would be equal to declaring war on culture if argued against.

[Delevicton]

You speak of balance, but you sure tip to the far end of the scale and completly fall in the water.
I said art isnt personal when you try to get money of it, because then ITS NOT FUCKING PERSONAL.
Still art.

Cute that you decided to name a band that would be equal to declaring war on culture if argued against.

..So then "Within You, Without You" isn't personal to George Harrison?

I make music and would like it to make money. I'll be damned if you tell me the music I write isn't personal. I'm sorry, but as an artist, I can't agree with you at all; and almost find it insulting.

[Deleted]

..So then "Within You, Without You" isn't personal to George Harrison?

I make music and would like it to make money. I'll be damned if you tell me the music I write isn't personal. I'm sorry, but as an artist, I can't agree with you at all; and almost find it insulting.

I wish i could put you on ignore, because all i see is rubbish.

Hell even the multi-lined argument that you deleted made more sense, which is counterproductive.
Atleast i think it made more sense. 3 is still more than 1, if less than 15.

[rhorle]

Plus, the catalyst stats that Shep is part synthetic, never, EVER, in the game stats that Shep is only alive thanks to those parts. Don’t give me the “Oh but we see something being added to his heart!”, because I’m quite sure that none of us know fuck of what it was or what it does.

It is the fact that the cybernetic implants are every where. Shepard's eyes, his face, his skeleton, his organs. They don't just put something on his heart but every where in him. You act like a pace maker is the only cybernetic part of Shepard. One of the first things Chakwas does when returning to the Normandy is checking to make sure Shepards cybernetics are still working fine.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Res...netic_Upgrades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dhcBr0oUHM

Also… you also seem to be only interpretation that Shep dies and nothing else… this also starts with a “Shep is dead.” as it was a fact, when even the bloody name of the scene is “Shep freaking lives!” as said before =X

Yes because saying that Shepard is alive isn't the only interpretation for the presented info is the same as saying Shepard is dead nothing else is possible. I could see the confusion if you can't understand the difference between the two.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I specifically stated that I wasn't super-intelligent and that I was in fact far from it, but I apologize for coming off that way. Different strokes for different folks.

Original endings didn't feel incomplete to me. I feel like they were brilliant because look how much people talked about them. People came up with the Indoctrination Theory because of it, etc. When you have an ending that open, it opens doors for a LOT of discussion and speculation for YEARS to come.. and I think that's really great. "What about this?! What do you think happened to (blank)!?" etc. Just my personal opinion. Now there's VERY little mystery, aside from the destroy ending where Shep is seen breathing. BUT... that was there in the original ending as well, so I really don't feel like we've gained anything. If anything, I feel like we have lost a lot of what made the original endings fun to talk about because now we have a lot of concrete answers.

Even if you don't agree with what I'm saying, could you at least see my point?

I don't think any mystery was lost. If anything, I'm thinking more about the endings now than I did before the EC. I have the information now. I can think of all the possible outcomes further in the future. I know the Reapers helped rebuild the relays in Control/Synthesis, so I'm able to wonder what happened after that. Did the Reapers simply go back to dark space? Did they stay and aid the civilizations further? Did they become an army against hostile species from another galaxy in the distant future?

I now know that civilization in the Synthesis ending had unlimited access to knowledge. What new technologies came out of it? Were they able to visit other galaxies? What would they find in those galaxies? Were there any long-term adverse effects to synthesis?

I couldn't wonder any of this before without thinking I was completely off-base because I really didn't know all of the facts. I didn't know that the relays were rebuilt. I didn't know sythensis would make the civilizations more intelligent. Now, I do, so I'm able to think up any number of futures for the galaxy.

[Deleted]

It is the fact that the cybernetic implants are every where. Shepard's eyes, his face, his skeleton, his organs. They don't just put something on his heart but every where in him. You act like a pace maker is the only cybernetic part of Shepard.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Res...netic_Upgrades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dhcBr0oUHM



Yes because saying that Shepard is alive isn't the only interpretation for the presented info is the same as saying Shepard is dead nothing else is possible. I could see the confusion if you can't understand the difference between the two.

Thats why i will assume, based on what has been presented, that Shep died and somehow through more spacemagic was rebooted and is now a cripple.
But its all hollow, fake hope that amounts to jackshit since its not my story.

[Delevicton]

Perhaps we have different definitions of thought-provoking. To me, the original endings were not thought-provoking at all. they were half-done. It felt like reading a book to chapter 19, only to find out chapter 20 got left out of publication. Things ended so abruptly that there really wasn't a whole hell of a lot to ponder on. There was just a lot of "...What?"

And no, you didn't directly insult anyone, but there was a hell of a lot of implications. You essentially said that me and everyone else who wanted the EC were somehow less intelligent than you. The EC simplified things (I refuse to use that "dumbing down" term - it's needlessly demeaning) quite a bit, but simplicity isn't a bad thing.

I did say that I was far from intelligent, but I apologize for coming across like an ass. Different strokes for different folks, etc.

To me, the endings were perfect because of how much they made people talk about them. We had people invent the "Indoctrination Theory", etc. People speculated endlessly because of how open the original endings were, and that's really great, in my opinion. It got people thinking, wondering, asking questions; and it gave us all something to talk about with other fans of the series. If anything, I feel like the EC took most of the mystery and "fun" of the endings away by making certain things concrete. There's hardly anything left to speculate about; aside from Shep's breath of life in the Destroy ending(which was there in the original endings anyway).

Even if you don't agree with my views, can you at least see where I'm coming from? I kind of liked reading everyone's different take on what the ending meant to them. Now there's far less room for that sort of thing.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I wish i could put you on ignore.

Why can't you? O.o

[Deleted]

Why can't you? O.o

The crucible wasnt firing.

Also, as a last note - the indoctrination theory was spawned from the fact that the ending was so abrubt and badly done that the playerbase absolutly REFUSED IT and sought evidence to support that it was wrong.
Thats how it really was, human stubbornness and the feeling of "WTF was this?", and the penultimate proof that the ending really flunked.

[rhorle]

I wish i could put you on ignore, because all i see is rubbish.

You can, but you don't need to be a jerk about it. Keep the personal attacks out of this thread.

[Delevicton]

I don't think any mystery was lost. If anything, I'm thinking more about the endings now than I did before the EC. I have the information now. I can think of all the possible outcomes further in the future. I know the Reapers helped rebuild the relays in Control/Synthesis, so I'm able to wonder what happened after that. Did the Reapers simply go back to dark space? Did they stay and aid the civilizations further? Did they become an army against hostile species from another galaxy in the distant future?

I now know that civilization in the Synthesis ending had unlimited access to knowledge. What new technologies came out of it? Were they able to visit other galaxies? What would they find in those galaxies? Were there any long-term adverse effects to synthesis?

I couldn't wonder any of this before without thinking I was completely off-base because I really didn't know all of the facts. I didn't know that the relays were rebuilt. I didn't know sythensis would make the civilizations more intelligent. Now, I do, so I'm able to think up any number of futures for the galaxy.

Really? I had assumed in the original control ending that Shep used the reapers to help rebuild everything. Why wouldn't he? Everything you just said.. the groundwork was there in the original endings. This is my entire point. You're going to think I'm implying you're not as intelligent as I am or something, but I HONESTLY must have said "I knew it" about five times while watching the Extended Cut. I personally assumed 90% of what was shown to me.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I guess we just like to wonder about different parts of the story. You liked wondering about what happened during the story, I like wondering about what happens long after the story.

[Thenuge]

Well then agree to disagree. I personally prefer when developers assume I'm intelligent enough to draw my own conclusions. I really didn't learn anything new from the extended cut aside from some interesting dialogue regarding the Catalyst's/Reaper's creators. I'm not saying I'm super smart or anything like that; far from it. It just wasn't that difficult to figure out.

90% of the extended cut was unnecessary from a story-telling standpoint, and only served to "dumb things down" for players who needed to be sat down and explained everything in extreme detail because they couldn't appreciate the beautiful, dark, tragic, and open ending the developers had originally planned for their artistic vision.

This whole ending controversy has worried me a bit about the future of gaming. Will developers now be afraid to stick to their visions and take risks? I don't want to live in a world where every video game ending holds your hand like a child.

Artistic Integrity does not really fit with the Mass Effect series. The whole point of mass effect is to live your own game your own choices. In a sense the player is the artist. My/Your decisions was a telling of your own personal story in the universe. In fact much of the series was written by the players as Bioware let you upload data from the previous 2 games so that they may shape the story for the most used scenarios.

It is a shame about the ending because you can definitely tell it was rushed compared to the rest of the game and it is pretty obvious they contradict themselves with the whole organics vs synthetics can never work together in the mass effect 3 game itself.

If you consider movies and books a form of Artistic Integrity then you must hate Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock holmes.

Movies: Clerks changed its ending, dawn of the dead changed its ending, fatal attraction changed its ending, and even a comedy like Dodgeball changed its ending.

Artistic Integrity is a lazy fall back for an entertainment industry. The whole point of the entertainment industry is to sell a product to a consumer. If the consumer does not like the product they will not buy it. This is why bioware created the EC, so that they can sell future products.

"Artistic Integrity" is bullshit in the entertainment industry their whole point is to make money otherwise they can have their "Artistic Integrity" on the street with the rest of the world painters and then maybe when they die it will become valuable.

[Deleted]

You can, but you don't need to be a jerk about it. Keep the personal attacks out of this thread.

I never attacked him, i just commented that i found his posts to be rubbish.
Nothing on him as a person.

[Delevicton]

I wish i could put you on ignore, because all i see is rubbish.

Hell even the multi-lined argument that you deleted made more sense, which is counterproductive.
Atleast i think it made more sense. 3 is still more than 1, if less than 15.

You never said why it was "rubbish". All you did was personally attack me. Art can still be personal if you're trying to make money with it. I don't see what there is to argue about there.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Really? I had assumed in the original control ending that Shep used the reapers to help rebuild everything. Why wouldn't he? Everything you just said.. the groundwork was there in the original endings. This is my entire point. You're going to think I'm implying you're not as intelligent as I am or something, but I HONESTLY must have said "I knew it" about five times while watching the Extended Cut. I personally assumed 90% of what was shown to me.

I had my suspicions, but I don't like basing my wonders on suspicions and assumptions. I'm just going to chalk this up to differences in how we appreciate art at this point. lol

[Delevicton]

Artistic Integrity does not really fit with the Mass Effect series. The whole point of mass effect is to live your own game your own choices. In a sense the player is the artist. My/Your decisions was a telling of your own personal story in the universe. In fact much of the series was written by the players as Bioware let you upload data from the previous 2 games so that they may shape the story for the most used scenarios.

It is a shame about the ending because you can definitely tell it was rushed compared to the rest of the game and it is pretty obvious they contradict themselves with the whole organics vs synthetics can never work together in the mass effect 3 game itself.

If you consider movies and books a form of Artistic Integrity then you must hate Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock holmes.

Movies: Clerks changed its ending, dawn of the dead changed its ending, fatal attraction changed its ending, and even a comedy like Dodgeball changed its ending.

Artistic Integrity is a lazy fall back for an entertainment industry. The whole point of the entertainment industry is to sell a product to a consumer. If the consumer does not like the product they will not buy it. This is why bioware created the EC, so that they can sell future products.

"Artistic Integrity" is bullshit in the entertainment industry their whole point is to make money otherwise they can have their "Artistic Integrity" on the street with the rest of the world painters and then maybe when they die it will become valuable.

With all due respect; how can you say what the point of the series was? Wouldn't that be Bioware's call? Your decisions most CERTAINLY still mattered in the original ending. Your relationship with Legion/EDI, for example. Someone who enjoyed those characters most likely would not choose the destroy ending. That's one example, but keep this in mind: just because you don't directly see the outcome of your choices, doesn't mean your choices didn't matter at the end of the game. They certainly did for me.

---------- Post added 2012-06-30 at 12:33 PM ----------

I had my suspicions, but I don't like basing my wonders on suspicions and assumptions. I'm just going to chalk this up to differences in how we appreciate art at this point. lol

Okay, fair enough

[rhorle]

Artistic Integrity does not really fit with the Mass Effect series. The whole point of mass effect is to live your own game your own choices.

But you are still working within the vision Bioware has. No amount of player desire will allow you to shoot Miranda in the face. Or kill the council and assume control of the Citadel. Games like Mass Effect allow choices and allow you to shape a part of the story but you are still only bound by the choices you are given. The game still forces you to make certain choices in the way Bioware wanted you to make those choices.

You are playing a character in Bioware's world, not creating your own character and/or world. It is what people often forget when playing Dragon Age and Mass Effect and complaining why X isn't Y, or when they try to roleplay something that doesn't fit. It doesn't matter what you want or how you see your character because it is still a Bioware character

[Oerba Yun Fang]

No amount of player desire will allow you to shoot Miranda in the face.

Is it bad that I found that hilarious?

[Deleted]

But you are still working within the vision Bioware has. No amount of player desire will allow you to shoot Miranda in the face.

If people can argue that X happens in the endings, then i can argue that Oriana shot Miranda in the face.
I call my own artistic integrity.