U.S. Presidential race - Republican Discussion

[belfpala]

no.. I want us to be the UNITED STATES of America.. 50 states bound by a single constitution.. kind of like what the EU is making an awkward attempt at emulating..

You also want the weakest possible central government, with the states handling almost everything. Sounds like the EU to me.

But... if that's not what you mean... also sounds like the Articles of Confederation. We all know how that worked out.

[Wells]

no.. I want us to be the UNITED STATES of America.. 50 states bound by a single constitution.. kind of like what the EU is making an awkward attempt at emulating..

The 1860's called, they want their debate back.

[Spectral]

You also want the weakest possible central government, with the states handling almost everything. Sounds like the EU to me.

But... if that's not what you mean... also sounds like the Articles of Confederation. We all know how that worked out.

You're probably already well aware, but people that talk about "state's rights" almost always do it because the policies they really want are things that are unconstitutional at the federal level. By claiming that, for example, states can legislate against abortion, they can advocate some really awful shit by saying, "hey it's a state's choice".

[ishootblanks]

Alright, so if you were to increase the number of congresspersons from 435 to 6,300 as per the Thirty-Thousand.org guidelines, you would be increasing the size of congress by 1448.28%. In order to ensure that the amount of money spent on their wages doesn't increase you would need to cut their pay from $174,000/year to $12,014.25/year.

Now, I know that the argument would be that these people would only be working for 10 months (that has other issues of requiring people to vote every 10 months), but you have to consider: would you honestly work in this position for this kind of salary, especially considering the amount of time, energy, and money it takes to get there?

I admire the idea of giving people a stronger and clearer voice in their government, but increasing the amount of congresspeople in this amount just sounds like a logistical nightmare that would scare away most qualified candidates who don't want to deal with a headache that doesn't compensate them enough for it.

Post-script: I did this math rather quickly, so if I made a mistake and you have a correction I would prefer if you shared it.

oh crap.. this is bad.. I agree with Grokan!

based on 311,000,000 people we would need 10367 congressmen.. (california would need 1667.. Wyoming would need 17)

and based on what congress makes now (174,000/yr) to keep the money spent on pay the same they could not make more than $7306/yr.. and they would have to lose the pension and lifetime ultra-benefits completely..

so yes.. I fully support your opinion on this Grokan!

---------- Post added 2012-07-24 at 01:36 AM ----------

The 1860's called, they want their debate back.

I'm pretty sure the Confederate States of America would lose again...

---------- Post added 2012-07-24 at 01:39 AM ----------

You also want the weakest possible central government, with the states handling almost everything. Sounds like the EU to me.

But... if that's not what you mean... also sounds like the Articles of Confederation. We all know how that worked out.

"weakest possible" is a relative term.. I'm not taking the ultra-hardcore anti-federalist approach.. I mean today I'd be happy as a clam to get government scaled back down to where it was under Clinton.. get it to Reagan 1984 level and I'd need to change my pants!

[Tastyfish]

the left is responsible for the condition of the inner-city poor..

Ok if you want that then how about I raise you something just as stupid, just as obfuscated in semi facts. HIV/AIDS was created, according to it's US patent numbers, from using Grants given by conservative insitutions. Ever wonder what happens when vaccinations go wrong? Well there you go.

[Grizzly Willy]

Wait, are you arguing that vaccines created aids?

[belfpala]

"weakest possible" is a relative term.. I'm not taking the ultra-hardcore anti-federalist approach.. I mean today I'd be happy as a clam to get government scaled back down to where it was under Clinton.. get it to Reagan 1984 level and I'd need to change my pants!

Good point. Clinton actually ran a surplus for a couple years (yes, I know the story is more nuanced than saying "Clinton did that")

[Spectral]

Ok if you want that then how about I raise you something just as stupid, just as obfuscated in semi facts. HIV/AIDS was created, according to it's US patent numbers, from using Grants given by conservative insitutions. Ever wonder what happens when vaccinations go wrong? Well there you go.

I'm familiar with the right-wing claim that Democrats cause inner city poverty, but I'm completely unfamiliar with this conspiracy theory. What do you mean by [HIV's] US patent numbers? The origin of the virus is well established, and it's surely not a lab of any kind.

[ishootblanks]

Ok if you want that then how about I raise you something just as stupid, just as obfuscated in semi facts. HIV/AIDS was created, according to it's US patent numbers, from using Grants given by conservative insitutions. Ever wonder what happens when vaccinations go wrong? Well there you go.

so you're saying that expanding social programs and trying to get people to sign up for them is not part of the left's desires?

[Spectral]

Good point. Clinton actually ran a surplus for a couple years (yes, I know the story is more nuanced than saying "Clinton did that")

I see no point, in present rhetoric flinging situations, to even acknowledge that there's more to it than "Clinton did that". If every negative economic indicator is going to be cited as proof that Obama's really bad, then fuck it, Clinton did do that.

[Tastyfish]

Wait, are you arguing that vaccines created aids?

Not at all.
We (the USA) patented the virus, which needed research funding. Theroy is that during vac trials for w/e drama they were having serveral decades ago + human error caused the epidemic.

That is neither hear nor there really. My point is to illustrate the insanity of blaming one grp for the issues of thousands.

[Felya]

My initial gut reaction is to say, "this will put idiots in office!". Then I look around and realize that we really couldn't possibly do worse than people like Allen "oh noes teh commies" West, Hank "Guam might tip over" Johnson, or Michele "vaccines made me retarded" Bachmann.

At least with Bachmann, our system was effective on keeping her out of the presidential race.

[Grizzly Willy]

I see. My apologies, I wasn't sure if I was understanding your post correctly.

[ishootblanks]

Good point. Clinton actually ran a surplus for a couple years (yes, I know the story is more nuanced than saying "Clinton did that")

Clinton raising taxes at the end of his second term was definitely not the cause for the growth he presided over.. but he did make some good decisions.. like the welfare reform that Obama just neutered..

kinda crazy though if you think about it.. the budget deficit today is nearly as much as Clinton's entire 1999 budget..

[Tastyfish]

so you're saying that expanding social programs and trying to get people to sign up for them is not part of the left's desires?

No I am saying, that it's way too dramatic to blame people who think differently form you for all the worlds ills. That is such a limited and ignorant way to argue. You want to think what you do fine. It's just crazy for one part of a two party system to be fully to blame for something, seeing as every few years power switches between them.

[Spectral]

Not at all.
We (the USA) patented the virus, which needed research funding. Theroy is that during vac trials for w/e drama they were having serveral decades ago + human error caused the epidemic.

That is neither hear nor there really. My point is to illustrate the insanity of blaming one grp for the issues of thousands.

So, according to this theory, the researchers then created SIV and made it look like a close ancestor to HIV-1, infected monkeys with SIV, went back in time to make sure SIV infected humans and converted to multiple different HIV strains, then produced data indicating that SIV had been around tens of thousands of years? I must say, that's some diabolical genius.

[ishootblanks]

No I am saying, that it's way too dramatic to blame people who think differently form you for all the worlds ills. That is such a limited and ignorant way to argue. You want to think what you do fine. It's just crazy for one part of a two party system to be fully to blame for something, seeing as every few years power switches between them.

ok.. in every single state/national park in the country.. there are signs all over the place that say "do not feed the animals"

what are those signs for?

[belfpala]

So, according to this theory, the researchers then created SIV and made it look like a close ancestor to HIV-1, infected monkeys with SIV, went back in time to make sure SIV infected humans and converted to multiple different HIV strains, then produced data indicating that SIV had been around tens of thousands of years? I must say, that's some diabolical genius.

I request a link to the actual patents, if this kind of nonsense is being claimed. It's public information.

Edit: link gratis... http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/search/

Edit again: I didn't even thing biological things were patentable until the early 80's.

[ishootblanks]

So, according to this theory, the researchers then created SIV and made it look like a close ancestor to HIV-1, infected monkeys with SIV, went back in time to make sure SIV infected humans and converted to multiple different HIV strains, then produced data indicating that SIV had been around tens of thousands of years? I must say, that's some diabolical genius.

I'm sure it was Bush's fault

[Spectral]

ok.. in every single state/national park in the country.. there are signs all over the place that say "do not feed the animals"

what are those signs for?

Poor people (especially those inner city ones): basically animals.

The Republican platform in a nutshell.