U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[Wells]

Ummm no I wasn't. The law internship thing was about another matter.

The discussion steered pretty quickly away from minimum wage to showing how simply getting job experience is very valuable, and that people might actually voluntarily choose to work for nothing if the experience had a high present value.

Which is a fantastic way to get away from the point where people were arguing that sub minimum wage jobs might actually lead into anything of value in the future.

[Deleted]

Which is a fantastic way to get away from the point where people were arguing that sub minimum wage jobs might actually lead into anything of value in the future.

Well don't look at me. They were calling it slavery 'n shit. Anyway, I don't really have to explain myself to you. You can go back and read the dialogue, it's all there.

[Grizzly Willy]

Look, please don't take this as an insult as I do not mean it as such. I understand that you don't have to answer, but I don't want to jump to conclusions about the state of your health based on your posting. That said, do you have early onset Alzheimer's or some other similar cognitive disability that inhibits your short term memory? Because:


This is something you just said. The word I want to emphasize here is 'suddenly', because what you're saying is that law firms pay their employees low wages now, and the context of this statement concerns unpaid internships.

The statement 'suddenly have to pay proper wages' means they are not currently being paid proper wages, because (based on the context of the conversation) they utilize unpaid internships. This is not true. I point this out to you, and this newest statement of yours to which I am responding would indicate that you were unaware of your previous statement.

I believe this miscommunication is my fault because I assumed that you were, at least as far as acuity and memory is concerned, at the same level of functionality as normal people.

Look, I understand that disabilities are hard to deal with. I'm not trying to judge you; I just want to accommodate you in this discussion. If you have a short term memory problem, I have no issue making sure I quote you more often and use past quotes of yours more often.

It is not my intent to take advantage in an argument of someone's disability, and I hope through this discourse we can increase the level of constructive content exchanged between us.

Stanton, I'm rather disappointed that you're resorting to ad hominin attacks.

[Riidii]

Stanton, I'm rather disappointed that you're resorting to ad hominin attacks.

He does this all the time. Nothing new.

Out of ammo? Resorts to slander.

[bergmann620]

They had no choice because they (or their predecessors) took some of the available tools out of their hands. Just like that idiot Norquist is doing.

They had no choice because we don't believe in governmental rainy-day funds any more than we do personally.

I wonder, have poor personal fiscal decisions rubbed off on the government, or have poor government fiscal decisions rubbed off on the public?

[Wells]

Pretty fantastic John Oliver bit on the Daily Show about Florida's anti voter spree tonight.

[Stanton Biston]

Stanton, I'm rather disappointed that you're resorting to ad hominin attacks.

There's actually a bit in there about how it's not.

I'm just trying to understand. Because Diurdi was talking about 'suddenly having to pay law interns a proper wage' when on average they make more than 50% of the income earners in the US.

I'm not trying to assume anything, I just don't understand why he would say that as it's not based on anything empirical.

I didn't even get into the fact that a 'shitty' finance job pays incredibly well or that a 'shitty' insurance job is only as 'shitty' as the commissions you bring in.

He picked examples with no basis in reality. I can only conclude that such act would come from someone suffering dementia or something, but I don't want to assume which is why I asked.

You're threading on thin ice, people have gotten banned for less.

By all rights, I should have been banned already a couple of times over. I'm not even sure why I haven't been yet.

But I can tell you, it's more a more interesting idea that participating in this farcical conversation.

[Merkava]

Look, please don't take this as an insult as I do not mean it as such. I understand that you don't have to answer, but I don't want to jump to conclusions about the state of your health based on your posting. That said, do you have early onset Alzheimer's or some other similar cognitive disability that inhibits your short term memory? Because:


This is something you just said. The word I want to emphasize here is 'suddenly', because what you're saying is that law firms pay their employees low wages now, and the context of this statement concerns unpaid internships.

The statement 'suddenly have to pay proper wages' means they are not currently being paid proper wages, because (based on the context of the conversation) they utilize unpaid internships. This is not true. I point this out to you, and this newest statement of yours to which I am responding would indicate that you were unaware of your previous statement.

I believe this miscommunication is my fault because I assumed that you were, at least as far as acuity and memory is concerned, at the same level of functionality as normal people.

Look, I understand that disabilities are hard to deal with. I'm not trying to judge you; I just want to accommodate you in this discussion. If you have a short term memory problem, I have no issue making sure I quote you more often and use past quotes of yours more often.

It is not my intent to take advantage in an argument of someone's disability, and I hope through this discourse we can increase the level of constructive content exchanged between us.

I've seen (and authored) a lot of whiny, underhanded, douchebag, condescending, girls bathroom wall type posts, but this has to take the cake.

[Deleted]

There's actually a bit in there about how it's not.

I'm just trying to understand. Because Diurdi was talking about 'suddenly having to pay law interns a proper wage' when on average they make more than 50% of the income earners in the US.

I'm not trying to assume anything, I just don't understand why he would say that as it's not based on anything empirical.

A wage that is "proper" for his standards (I believe it was ptwonline). That is, a wage that is considerably higher than it is now. Apply this new info to what I said and it ought to be pretty clear.

I didn't even get into the fact that a 'shitty' finance job pays incredibly well or that a 'shitty' insurance job is only as 'shitty' as the commissions you bring in.

I was talking about jobs at finance firms or insurance firms that are aimed at finance students. That is, temp jobs during the summer that have gazillion applicants each year. I could get more working at a construction site or at one of the retail jobs I've worked at before, yet the job at one of the finance firms is much more valuable because of the experience.

[oblivionx]

You're threading on thin ice, people have gotten banned for less.

I've gotten infractions for responding to someone (one of these types) insulting me, while they weren't infracted. I got banned, for a I assume infractions that were all responses to a leftwing troll's insults.

Obviously he won't be dealt with here, but I might for even commenting on it.

[Deleted]

I've gotten infractions for responding to someone (one of these types) insulting me, while they weren't infracted. I got banned, for a I assume infractions that were all responses to a leftwing troll's insults.

Obviously he won't be dealt with here, but I might for even commenting on it.

I personally haven't noticed much political bias when it comes to bans.

[Badpaladin]

Apologies for not noticing that one ... busy day yesterday with local developer conferences.

Let's not get too Ad-Hominem here.

[ptwonline]

They had no choice because we don't believe in governmental rainy-day funds any more than we do personally.

I wonder, have poor personal fiscal decisions rubbed off on the government, or have poor government fiscal decisions rubbed off on the public?

The answer is that governments buy votes with taxpayer money. As long as things are close to 50/50, politicians will feel more pressure to bribe voters to keep their support. That is why I was hoping that after the post-Bush Republican collapse that it would take some time for that party to recover. Only then could the Democrats actually show some testicular fortitude in making unpopular moves to fix some of the budget issues. Once they had done that, it would be harder for either party to simply give that up and go back to buying votes so blatantly and running big deficits.

[bamf775]

New topic: illegal immigration. How do you want to handle this? You think we should continue to let people in this country illegally?

Tell me if this makes sense? University of Colorado now charges in-state tuition around $4200, out-of-state a whopping $16,000, yet they want to charge illegal immigrants only $7200 for tuition. They don't call it illegal immigrants of course ( because apparently that's politically incorrect now. lol. (It just gets better doesn't it?)

Here is a source on it: http://www.9news.com/news/article/26...state-tuition-

Yes, I watch fox news and it was also on O'Reilly last night. Say what you want about him and the fox network but I watch CNN and MSNBC and I hear so much garbage from them too. That is not the point though.

The point is that, the "legal" immigrants who actually came here legally that want to go to University of Colorado have to pay out-of-state tuition where Illegal immigrants get to pay close to instate tuition. Riddle me this please. Does any of this make sense?

[Kasierith]

New topic: illegal immigration. How do you want to handle this? You think we should continue to let people in this country illegally?

Tell me if this makes sense? University of Colorado now charges in-state tuition around $4200, out-of-state a whopping $16,000, yet they want to charge illegal immigrants only $7200 for tuition. They don't call it illegal immigrants of course ( because apparently that's politically incorrect now. lol. (It just gets better doesn't it?)

Here is a source on it: http://www.9news.com/news/article/26...state-tuition-

Yes, I watch fox news and it was also on O'Reilly last night. Say what you want about him and the fox network but I watch CNN and MSNBC and I hear so much garbage from them too. That is not the point though.

The point is that, the "legal" immigrants who actually came here legally that want to go to University of Colorado have to pay out-of-state tuition where Illegal immigrants get to pay close to instate tuition. Riddle me this please. Does any of this make sense?

Mind giving the actual bill for that? The information in that looks sketchy at best... 20,000 dollars more expensive if you're out of state? I'd find it far more likely that they're tacking on the "illegal" part merely for sensationalism, and that the actual bill is to prevent price gauging for people coming to attend school from other countries, or those who are here legally but do not yet have citizenship.

[Lenonis]

I think illegal immigration is actually 2 problems.

1) How to get an immigration system in place that discourages illegal immigration while still maintaining a healthy number of immigrants.
2) What to do with immigrants already here.

I don't have a good answer because I'm sure there is one. Reality has to temper whatever the solution is -- as much as you may want to pound the "round them up and ship them off" drum, that's just flat out not realistic.

The easiest? Reform the immigration system to make it easier for people to immigrate legally. Set up harsher punishments for people who employ illegal immigrants and set up a system of effective and efficient deportation. Give amnesty to the people here now with no criminal record and be done with it. Set a date, draw a line, and then actually follow through with keeping immigration under control.

I'm sure there are a million and ten flaws with the idea, but it's the best I got.

[Wells]

Ending our policies that have been destabilizing nations south of us would help.

[Spectral]

New topic: illegal immigration. How do you want to handle this? You think we should continue to let people in this country illegally?

Tell me if this makes sense? University of Colorado now charges in-state tuition around $4200, out-of-state a whopping $16,000, yet they want to charge illegal immigrants only $7200 for tuition. They don't call it illegal immigrants of course ( because apparently that's politically incorrect now. lol. (It just gets better doesn't it?)

Here is a source on it: http://www.9news.com/news/article/26...state-tuition-

Yes, I watch fox news and it was also on O'Reilly last night. Say what you want about him and the fox network but I watch CNN and MSNBC and I hear so much garbage from them too. That is not the point though.

The point is that, the "legal" immigrants who actually came here legally that want to go to University of Colorado have to pay out-of-state tuition where Illegal immigrants get to pay close to instate tuition. Riddle me this please. Does any of this make sense?

Some people don't think kids should be punished for things their parents did. The story explicitly says these rates would apply to students that graduated from Colorado high schools and are actively seeking legal immigration status. Do people really believe that undocumented immigrants that are trying to go to college and get legal immigration papers are the problem?

[eriseis]

Some people don't think kids should be punished for things their parents did. The story explicitly says these rates would apply to students that graduated from Colorado high schools and are actively seeking legal immigration status. Do people really believe that undocumented immigrants that are trying to go to college and get legal immigration papers are the problem?

Thank you, I mean, of course the fact that what a Mexican earns in a day (and we're talking about one of the better off countries) is earned by an American in less than an hour is totally irrelevant. It's about college for immigrants!

---------- Post added 2012-06-14 at 09:02 PM ----------

I think illegal immigration is actually 2 problems.

1) How to get an immigration system in place that discourages illegal immigration while still maintaining a healthy number of immigrants.
2) What to do with immigrants already here.

I don't have a good answer because I'm sure there is one. Reality has to temper whatever the solution is -- as much as you may want to pound the "round them up and ship them off" drum, that's just flat out not realistic.

The easiest? Reform the immigration system to make it easier for people to immigrate legally. Set up harsher punishments for people who employ illegal immigrants and set up a system of effective and efficient deportation. Give amnesty to the people here now with no criminal record and be done with it. Set a date, draw a line, and then actually follow through with keeping immigration under control.

I'm sure there are a million and ten flaws with the idea, but it's the best I got.

I think it's a good start.

[eriseis]

Problem is, he lost a lot of people that don't want to think very hard about it.

I remember Wells saying something in regards to it.

Current popular approach: Close the border! Get out! Build a fence! Yeah!
Rational approach: Well, it's a bit complicated. You have unstable Mexico, businesses hiring illegals...Zzzzzzzz


Wells did it better than I did, I have to admit.

I find the fence idea hilarious and stupid. Like i've said before, we're talking about people who traveled through a rather unstable and dangerous area of the world and one of the largest countries in the world...a fence is gonna do nothing.