Boomkin is in need of aid!?

[Myrddraal]

Hello, I've been lurking around the MMO Champ forums forever. I've now decided to make an account so I can try and get our boomkin a little help. I play a Disc / Holy priest most of the time. I went shadow this week for H Yor'Sahj attempts due to the enrage timer. Using my healing gear and trinkets, I noticed I beat our boomkin on that fight, so I thought I'd come here.

Just how bad off are boomkins in comparison to other dps classes? Using my healing gear/trinkets I pulled within 2k of our boomkin on Ultraxion, and actually beat him on Yor'Sahj. Our ilvls at this point are within two points of each other. (( Keep in mind with my healing gear I'm mastery stacked, and had somewhere around 27% hit chance, and no dps set bonuses. Nowhere near optimized. ))

worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dsr9a4g2hkplhedf/sum/damageDone/?s=95&e=382 is the most recent Ultraxion encounter sadly. We didn't have WoL running the last two weeks during that encounter.

us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/Hawksu/simple Armory link.

If you can suggest any rotation changes, or gearing changes he can make to help him, it would be much appreciated.

[Cellion]

Didn't have much time to look him over (on my way to class) but two things I noticed for him to change are

1) Immediately drop the Lunar Shower talent
2) Change the reforge on his weapon from mastery to haste to spirit to haste.

His DoT uptimes looked alright, NG could be better but its not bad.

[Xarantaur42]

I agree with Cellion; Lunar Shower should be dropped completely. It may not hurt DPS too much on a single-target, "stand and pew" fight like Ultraxion, but from the rest of your logs it's seriously gimping him on multi-dot fights like Blackhorn and Madness. I'm guessing a significant portion of that is from Lunar Shower's effect killing his Eclipse (and not merely assuming he's bad, which I don't think at all). These points can be put into a number of places, either to help your healers (Perseverance), act as utility (Dreamstate for Yor'sahj mana voids), or give a mini-boost to his DPS (Blessing of the Grove; any extra damage is a boost when trying to maximize).

Fungal Growth is much the same, since there aren't any fights in DS that require the slow. Again, move points wherever you feel would best benefit the raid/fight mechanics.

Reforging-wise, he's more than 2% over hit cap AND reforging into Spirit, so that's a bit of wasted stats right there. There are a number of addons that can help with the reforging process; suggest that he looks at one to re-evaluate.

Gear-wise, his haste seems a little low for the gear level he has. If he can get his hands on the crafted bracers (Flowing Serenity), have him do so. Also, if he has access to the boomy tier helm, have him use that to complete his 4-piece and get the resto chest. Both these options will add nice chunks of haste. He needs to buy his 397 relic - he won't replace it this tier, and it will boost everything. The 700 VP is well worth it.

If he has no problems with movement/raid awareness, I'd suggest replacing the Lavawalker enchant on his boots to the haste one.

As far as just the Ultraxion kill you linked, I'm a bit confused. Everything seemed to make sense until I checked the "Buffs Gained" tab and saw that he was only in Moonkin Form for 78.2% of the fight. I figured it might have been partly because he was asked to pop Tranq late in the fight, but it doesn't show he used Tranq at all... Needless to say, 10% spell damage and 5% haste (because he's the only one bringing that buff), plus the 4% spell damage from Master Shapeshifter, all missing for 20% of the fight... I hope that was an accident. He didn't seem to have that issue in any of the other fights.

~Xar~

[Myrddraal]

Thanks for the input guys. It's very much appreciated. =)

[Deleted]

perhaps he had to soak some houres, and used bearform+barkskin+regeneration? Just a suggestion, havent looked at logs.

[Deleted]

He casts his moonfire/sunfire a bit too often. For example, I have 22 direct dmg hits and crits from my sunfire/moonfire. He has 27. Now bear in mind that my ultraxion log was 1 minute longer and on heroic mode.
He also doesn't preplace shrooms before the fight.

I know this fairly nitpicky, but those are all things that cost you dps.

Also, I was using the log browser on Ultraxion kill. He's doing something fatally wrong. Seems he's not refreshing his dots at the start of an eclipse, which causes him to lose massive amount of uptime from NG. He only refreshes them when they're about to run out.
He also opens up with a dots and starfall, again causing him to lose dps imo. Dots aren't very strong when cast out of eclipse.

I usually start out a fight with a prepot 1-2 seconds before the bull and then precast a wrath/starfire, depending on the eclipsebar. When I'm start out fresh, I push to lunar first. So that means I open up with a wrath > starsurge > apply dots for NG effect > continue casting wrath until I reach eclipse. When my last wrath spell is flying, I cast starfall and que up a starfire and then a starsurge.

When in lunar eclipse, you should always attempt to only cast one starsurge, even if soothing stars procs, you should save the proc to follow up your last eclipsed starfire with an instant starsurge. Then both will have the dmg buff from lunar eclipse.

I personally still have the T12 4set, so I don't know whether the T13 2piece makes it a must to open up with insect warm. But i seriously doubt that, since a 3% dmg buff to 2 spells is usually non-existent.

[DraconusIX]

Honestly I find the lunar shower talent to be a dps INCREASE in most fights. All to often there is significant movement at inopportune times. Using lunar shower, not only is my dmg significantly higher, but i can get to eclipse. It really is a toss up, but both have valid uses. The only place where it can be an absolute hindrance (varying on strat) is blackhorn and spine. For my guilds strats though, having lunar shower is worth it. Pushing eclipses is so tight on spine (and since i dont multidot adds, per request from the RL), any extra energy (even in eclipse) is nice to make it back to solar (non-hero) or lunar (hero) while managing high dmg on the amalgation.

On ultraxion last night, I managed 44.3k without PI, DI, arcane crit, or tricks. Not the best class, but not the worst. We can't compete with mages, but we are close to the other ranged (slightly ahead/behind). There is tricks like holding starsurge procs (or cast if on the lunar-> solar part of the cycle) for fitting in max # of spells before fading twilight or fading light. Its key to lose as little time as possible.

Comparing my parse to his (4:46 vs 4:40):
I had 85 wrath hits, he had 56
I had 53 starfire hits, he had 38
I had 29 starsurge hits, he had 24

His uptime was good on dots, very similiar to mine. However, he needs to work on WHEN to refresh dots.

Sadly though, looking at the sheer number of wrath hits and starfire hits (i have 5% more haste), here is the problem: He is not chain casting. He has delay BETWEEN his casts. I imagine the majority of this is around instants and when haste capped on wrath, but SOME could exist during normal chain casting.

Do a test - have him button mash during the test, then one without button mashing. Look at the sheer number of spells cast for each and see if there is a difference.

[Deleted]

Honestly I find the lunar shower talent to be a dps INCREASE in most fights. All to often there is significant movement at inopportune times. Using lunar shower, not only is my dmg significantly higher, but i can get to eclipse. It really is a toss up, but both have valid uses. The only place where it can be an absolute hindrance (varying on strat) is blackhorn and spine. For my guilds strats though, having lunar shower is worth it. Pushing eclipses is so tight on spine (and since i dont multidot adds, per request from the RL), any extra energy (even in eclipse) is nice to make it back to solar (non-hero) or lunar (hero) while managing high dmg on the amalgation.

On what fights do you feel you need to move more 3 seconds consecutively?
3 mushrooms are neat for putting down on a 3 second movement unless the dots ran out.

And sure, while LS will help you get into eclipse faster, it will also take quite some time while it does some damage since it doesn't stack on movement anymore but MF hits, while also replacing any moon(sun-)fire you had up in the first place.

[gakpad]

I have noticed ultraxion logs not showing proper uptime for moonkin so I would disregard that. a couple weeks ago I was looking over our pro moonkin ultraxion log where he did almost 43k and noticed it only showed 44% uptime. I'm going to assume he was in form the whole fight or moonkin are a hell of a lot better than I thought lol

[Nijada]

I have noticed ultraxion logs not showing proper uptime for moonkin so I would disregard that. a couple weeks ago I was looking over our pro moonkin ultraxion log where he did almost 43k and noticed it only showed 44% uptime. I'm going to assume he was in form the whole fight or moonkin are a hell of a lot better than I thought lol

I've noticed a lot of strange times on our Ultraxion HC logs. Seems to be that when the person recording the log goes into the twlight realm he doesnt record the information outside. So a lot of static buffs incorreclty show a lower uptime. I guess the only real way to log that fight would be having everyone logging and merge them.

[Deleted]

I've noticed a lot of strange times on our Ultraxion HC logs. Seems to be that when the person recording the log goes into the twlight realm he doesnt record the information outside. So a lot of static buffs incorreclty show a lower uptime. I guess the only real way to log that fight would be having everyone logging and merge them.

Or just log yourself, if you are only interested in your own performance/uptimes that is

[Myrddraal]

Well, I went over all of this with him. worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v0a9dgnqx30v9cge/sum/damageDone/?s=252&e=507 is our Ultraxion kill from last night. He almost had an effective 28k. However, I still feel that with his gear level, he should be doing more than that. . .

[Deleted]

Well, I went over all of this with him. worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v0a9dgnqx30v9cge/sum/damageDone/?s=252&e=507 is our Ultraxion kill from last night. He almost had an effective 28k. However, I still feel that with his gear level, he should be doing more than that. . .

I doubt it, Boomkins are kind of scaled around having DI these days, he had neither. Then you also have to bear in mind that Boomkins are currently one of the lowest single target dps spec for Ultraxion.
Besides, your guild is more of a casual guild (imo), you can't really expect your players to play most optimally, even if you'd want them to.

Why do you think he should be doing more? Because you look at other logs of similarly geared boomkin under the same conditions that have neither the legendary nor DI? Or do you simply look at other dps specs in your guild or look at the ranked boomkins and see their higher numbers without giving it some decent thought?
Take a look at this: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/blackrock/hawksu/
It basically compares his performance to that of other raiders of the same spec and class. He is around the middle for most fights. However, before I get tons of hate from others on me, this is not a good way to actually evaluate someone's performance, it merely compares them to the performance of other boomkins in this case.
If you really want to know how much he could be pulling off on a Patchwerk style encounter, run a simulation with his character profile.


The only problem I see at this moment, is that his haste is a tad too low, and that's mostly due to a lack of the right pieces of gear. He could also get around 30 more mastery by reforging his ring from hit to mastery and his relic from crit to spirit. But those are little things. I don't really see a problem with his uptimes, so he might not be properly chaincasting.

[columbusjones]

Well, I went over all of this with him. worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v0a9dgnqx30v9cge/sum/damageDone/?s=252&e=507 is our Ultraxion kill from last night. He almost had an effective 28k. However, I still feel that with his gear level, he should be doing more than that. . .

Ultraxion is not the world's best fight for moonkins. His DoT uptime is good, his rotation looks right. I see double-potting and appropriate use of the special button. His eclipse up-time is spot on.

His haste is a little low. A better gear combo would be for him to pick up the moonkin tier helm and switch his current tier chest to resto (annoying, I know, but it's the best way to get the most haste).

I ran a comparison between his Ultrax fight and my most recent one (I'm at a similar gear level, no legendary, but did about 5k more dps than he did), and the major discrepancy is his hits/minute on his main nukes.

This could be caused by 2 things: either his lack of haste (he’s a little low, as I mentioned before), or that he’s not following the ABC rule of casters: always be casting. Does he queue his spells? Does he have an addon that shows latency on his cast bar so he knows when he can start his next cast?

Edit: here's the comparison, if you're interested: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/4f340...e0009b4#damage

[Deleted]

Ultraxion is not the world's best fight for moonkins. His DoT uptime is good, his rotation looks right. I see double-potting and appropriate use of the special button. His eclipse up-time is spot on.

His haste is a little low. A better gear combo would be for him to pick up the moonkin tier helm and switch his current tier chest to resto (annoying, I know, but it's the best way to get the most haste).

I ran a comparison between his Ultrax fight and my most recent one (I'm at a similar gear level, no legendary, but did about 5k more dps than he did), and the major discrepancy is his hits/minute on his main nukes.

This could be caused by 2 things: either his lack of haste (he’s a little low, as I mentioned before), or that he’s not following the ABC rule of casters: always be casting. Does he queue his spells? Does he have an addon that shows latency on his cast bar so he knows when he can start his next cast?

Edit: here's the comparison, if you're interested: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/4f340...e0009b4#damage

I checked your log, slap your warlocks in the face. It's pretty much a disgrace they give DI to a Fire mage over a boomkin. The overall raid dps will be higher if one of them gave it to you.

[columbusjones]

I checked your log, slap your warlocks in the face. It's pretty much a disgrace they give DI to a Fire mage over a boomkin. The overall raid dps will be higher if one of them gave it to you.

It's not the lock's fault, that's our GM's rule. And the GM is, notably, a boomkin.

Go figure.

[foibooze]

Let me guess, the GM-boomkin does less dmg than you thus can't claim it himself, so says it's better on another class so that you don't beat him even more!

[columbusjones]

Let me guess, the GM-boomkin does less dmg than you thus can't claim it himself, so says it's better on another class so that you don't beat him even more!

No, actually he does great dps (ranked top 50 for Balance druid on three or four DS fights, IIRC). :P He has the legendary so he's first on the list. It goes to him, then a fire mage.

There was one day last week where we had no spriests and the mage decided to go a non-fire spec, so I got the second DI for the first time ever. It was amazing.

[Deleted]

No, actually he does great dps (ranked top 50 for Balance druid on three or four DS fights, IIRC). :P He has the legendary so he's first on the list. It goes to him, then a fire mage.

There was one day last week where we had no spriests and the mage decided to go a non-fire spec, so I got the second DI for the first time ever. It was amazing.

It's kind of ridiculous tho. It's better for overall raid dps to give DI to a Boomkin over a fire mage.

[Deleted]

Unless your moonkin is bad and your fire mage is not.

Ultraxion is a trivial fight with some rng. I checked my own log of ultra 25h and it seems I managed 61% uptime on NG while dealing with 7 Fadings and 6 hours. The more fadings you get the more dps you will lose obviously, but moonkin gets hit just a bit harder because of our balance energy mechanic. Haste is pro, DI is king and DTR is boss.