Best 25 man loot system?

[braeldiil]

Honestly, they're all basically the same. Over a period of a few weeks and given a consistant player base, most of the loot will go to the same people. That's anything, from loot council to pure DKP bidding. It'll all come out in the wash, and the same people end up with pretty much the same loot.

Given that, you should look for the loot system that will cause the least guild drama. The goal can't be fairness, because they all end up in roughly the same place. Instead, look for the one that makes the raiding players the most comfortable.

On a personal note, I've done every loot system under the sun. I've hade pure loot councils, and loot councils with rules for "fairness". I've done DKP fixed cost, and pure DKP auctions. I've even done pure random. I prefer DKP, because the rules moderate the guild drama. Instead of the occasional flareup over an award leading to major drama, you get a lot of low-level grumbling and suggested tweaking for the DKP system. Same amount of drama, but a low, steady stream instead of random explosions.

[Brakthir]

Guild I'm in has been there since MC I believe and has always used egkp/dkp system and it's worked well so far. No loot drama once the item is actually won and if you want something, you pay for it.

[Dald]

DKP with decay or low cap

[Swindley]

Loot council.

RL links the item, everyone who wants the item links their current item (if its a trinket/ring link the worst one) and let the council distribute it whoever would gain most out of it.

They should consider it the item is BIS for someone etc, I'd say loot council is the way to go if your council are fair and can handle it properly.

This is a horrible system. It rewards players that dont care about improving themselves. So people with a 378 item would get rewarded, while the same person that did raid finder every week to get that 384 item would get punished?

I hate loot council, it's too biased.
It also promotes that the most vocal people get most loot. It's like having an argument for all loot for why YOU are best for the item.
The officers can't simply know what's best for all classes, track everyones attendance perfectly, like everyone equally and be 100% fair.

Me, I prefer just roll and MS> OS. People can bitch at the dice, but they don't bitch at eachother, and that's more important. Drama ruins guilds.

The decaying DKP thingy also works well imo. Better for people to whine at a loot system, than members of a council.

---------- Post added 2012-02-05 at 01:40 AM ----------

in BC and WOTLK my old guild used a system (probably named above somewhere) where people got a point for every hour they raided, and 2 points for new boss kills.
When something they needed dropped, whoever had the highest points would win, and drop them to 0. In the event two + people were tied, it'd be a roll to win. The system was one of the best imo.

This seems like a good system also. Rewards progress and attendance.

[Deleted]

I would say that the leaders will decide of whos performing the best.

[-Cynical-]

I hate loot council, it's too biased.
It also promotes that the most vocal people get most loot. It's like having an argument for all loot for why YOU are best for the item.
The officers can't simply know what's best for all classes, track everyones attendance perfectly, like everyone equally and be 100% fair.

The decaying DKP thingy also works well imo. Better for people to whine at a loot system, than members of a council.

---------- Post added 2012-02-05 at 01:40 AM ----------



This seems like a good system also. Rewards progress and attendance.

Loot Council promotes the most vocal people to get loot??? A proper loot council is when you send a tell or something to a specific council member and the council decides.. Not a bunch of chat over mumble with everyone.

Officers can know what's best for everyone in the Raid, You make "BiS Lists" for your class on you're guild Forums.. Also you can track attendance, You use Addons and Spreadsheets..

Also Loot Council isn't meant to be equal to everyone, It's meant to give the piece of gear to the person who performs the best. I.E, If someone has 395 ilvl and they are simming 40k DPS but they can't even do more than 33k DPS on a fight.. And a person is in 400 ilvl and they are simming 45k DPS and are consistently doing 43k-45k+ DPS.. The 400 ilvl person should get the item.

[redsunrising15]

my guild uses a mix of roll/loot council

worked so far.

[Velidan]

Loot Consil task is to make progress faster. It is unfair sometimes, it could provoke dramma, it is untransparent. But the progress is fast and motivation injections are most effective. Amount of problems LC provokes depends on you officers.
DKP/.../... is a trying to make fair, transparent system. All of them works and works good. Just that loot system tasks is fairness, not progress.

[kosuko]

Personally using EPGP, yet I really dislike not being able to bid 1 (dkp/gp/what ever you call it) on an item that no one really wants. But you'll have to wage the value of this option against holydins (rogues/hunters if your leather/mail count is low) getting their items for free.

[Dukenukem]

EPGP with officer overrule posibility -
simply distributes loot like EPGP but with things like Tanking 4set or similar things it gives my officers posibility to give loot to persons that will make progress easyer. Same for new players using system, unless none of seasoned active raiders wants the item for mainspec they wont get loot unless having 2 or more priority above raider rank (takes 2weeks usually so thats not impossible)

Every system has some weak points, if you tune it for your guild it will be better.

[Torty]

The OP mentioned that they merged with 'other top 10m guild', meaning that they are pretty good, have competent players and they focus on progress. I would say Loot Council works the best for it. Last 2 contents showed that gearing up dpsers is the most important thing you have to do to achieve higher ranking. You will never be able to do it, if you run any other system. Healers and tanks will eventually soak some loot, which essentialy provides almost no benefit for progression (or less benefit, to be more exact).

Ask yourself if people in your guild are willing to pass on gear for guild needs over their needs. If yes - go loot council. If no - go any other system. In conclusion, it is very important to maintain a healthy atmosphere in the guild above everything else. Whatever loot distribution system you decide to use, make sure people agree with it so that loot dramas don't suddenly start appearing 3 weeks later. State the guild goals clearly on your forum, make sure everyone understands what you are trying to achieve and what you need to do to achieve that.

[snarkysnark]

Loot Council

If your leaders cannot handle a proper loot distribution in:

a) BiS item distribution
b) Biggest raid utility upgrade (which increases the raid performance to progress onto the next fight)

Slap them.

Yep. Gear should be awarded strategically.

[Swindley]

Yep. Gear should be awarded strategically.

And how will they determine that? Some here say that tanks should get all the loot first, some say DPS should get it first, everyone will be biased, and losing raiders cause you happen to be a deathknight and you have to wait for your 2 druid tanks to gear up before you can even roll, etc etc, does not motivate people to continue. And for some saying you should reward good players? They can't possibly mointor every single player. Maybe some DPS stopped for a bit to heal, looking bad on DPS meters, maybe they were moving out of stuff. How to you evalue a good tank vs a poor one?

It's too biased, and no matter how you decide, some people will be annoyed, even for no real reason. It promotes drama.

As I said before, DKP and similar systems might not be perfect, but they keep the drama away, and it's better to whine about DKP systems, or bad rolls, than to whine about "player XX that doesnt know XX class" or "Player YY totally favours that girl he's flirting with"

People will be people and they will have biases, even some they might not be aware of.

[DrakeWurrum]

For example EPGP awards attendance very well but it never takes into account how big of an upgrade an item is or how much the raider deserves it.

Only if you use the system poorly.

[Socialhealer]

EPGP with a smart roster works perfectly fine.

you need a roster that actually cares about each other etc, and will pass a small upgrade for someone who it is a big upgrade for, or pass a non BiS for themselves to someone it is BiS to.

cunning of the cruel heroic dropped twice for us, i coulda taken either, but as an ele shaman i passed it to an spriest and a warlock since thats more of a raid dps gain.

no systems will work without a good roster who works together, not epgp not loot council nothing even people in power can be assholes.

[ImpTaimer]

Loot Council

If your leaders cannot handle a proper loot distribution in:

a) BiS item distribution
b) Biggest raid utility upgrade (which increases the raid performance to progress onto the next fight)

Slap them.

I agree with this really, but only in full-guild raid situations. At any point you invite a pug, you have to do MS>OS. I'm against Pay-to-Win-ing the game.

[Deleted]

best sistem loot is bidding DKP from my point

[Hellfury]

EPGP with a officer that knows how to handle its the best loot system I ever encountered. Its fair easy to manage and ife veryone has the addon fast, easy and convenient to distribute loot

Personally using EPGP, yet I really dislike not being able to bid 1 (dkp/gp/what ever you call it) on an item that no one really wants. But you'll have to wage the value of this option against holydins (rogues/hunters if your leather/mail count is low) getting their items for free.

EPGP has a option to set items as sidegrade, so they become really cheap incase noone else needs it as Mainspec.

[Tearyn]

Honestly, it all depends on the players involved. If they are nice people, almost any system would work. If they are not, there is no system that can avoid drama.

I personally always favored EP/GP, with common sense spread on thick. Tank 4sets etc.

[ANewStart]

We used epgp with decay when it was still worth raiding in this game. TBH your 25 man raiding guild won't last long and you will find out soon enough how much more effort outside of raids it requires then 10 man and the fact 10 man gets the same for ALOT less effort.