Chatting with my friends about SWTOR makes me miss WOW

[methods]

I was chilling with friends last night, who were not WoW players, but are SWTOR players. This as well as hitting 50 and realizing that it's really just the same old grind, and I starting really missing WoW. I miss some of my old guildmates and realm mates. I know some of the guilds that were around for 5 or more years have disbanded. It was a low population server, and while that didn't make for the best raiding environment sometimes, you really did get to see folks a lot and get to see their online personalities, good and bad. I'm talking Ironwolf Clan for the latter.

On the game side, the SWTOR mechanics, and I know it's a new release, just aren't there. We were were discussing PvP, and putting aside all the current bugs, the SWTOR just feels so simple and basic. Maybe it's because there's no arena, but I don't think that's it. The class abilities just aren't there. Things attack/counter strategies aren't as complex. The SWTOR skills just aren't as complete. While the Warzones have gotten some bad press, I think they did a good job with all three. You get tired of playing Hutball so much, but at least that it's the most dynamic warzone. There are folks that will say, "Hey this is the first release" and "remember WoW back in Vanilla days?". Yep, that's true, but Vanilla wow was in 2001!!!! So if you buy a 2001 car and shine it up like new and try and sell me it at 2012 prices, w.o an MP3 connection etc. you'd would just overlook those things?

My buddy is getting big into playing the Galactic Trade Network(GTN), optimizing his pricing and details such as that. When I tried to explain the WoW economy, I don't think he could fathom it and how advanced it could be, especially with an addon like Auctioneer. That addon is amazing. There still NOT even a SEARCH the GTN. Speaking of addons, while they could be a pain to maintain, when everything went bad,you knew exactly which addons were your favorites. A good bag addon (like bagon) a good UI addon (like Dominos, Power Auras) and a good keybinder, Auctioneer and a few other key items. I think Blizzard was super smart to allow addons, they added a lot to the game, yet weren't required. There's a video for the upcoming SWTOR 'mods', check it out, decide for yourself, but it again comes up waaay short. (The argument here is that you 'needed' those things in WoW and you don't need them in SWTOR. - well you didn't need them in WoW. Every guild said you "needed" a raid addon, like BossMods. I raided once with it and never used it again and managed to do fine. And SWTOR would be good to have the options)

Getting to 50, I was picking skill choices that were so boring. I respeced (within my AC) a bunch of times to see if I could really change may gameplay, but there were just some skill points that seemed like throw away. Raiding is no where near at the level or fun as WoW. Will that change? I really don't think so because the underlying mechanics and Biowares 'thinking' is really the same.

The story lines in SWTOR are pretty good, if not great, voice acting is top notch. But this was an MMO created from scratch, and your telling me my companion can go get mail? Or post something on the GTN? I really have to go back to my ship, from the ends of the earth, to go use my intercom??? It seems like they took so much bad stuff and brought that legacy over when the could have used the clean slate to really made a sick MMO. The only place I see where SWTOR can expand is space. While EVE rules here, and while it will never be like EVE, nor should it, the first go at space was a poor effort at best. Raids in space and on land? Probably one of the only areas Bio can go to be a little different.

So when Bio gets search working on GTN, is that a game changer? Absolutely not. The point is that dressing up a warrior in different cloths does not make a new game. (heck they couldn't even come up with unique names for some abilities.) What I always thought was sad, is the game devs. spend so much time on these expansive worlds, and half the time, after the initial impression wears off, you just want to get on to the next one, and not look back. How often are you going back to Hoth or Balmorra?

In case your wondering, I'm not going to go back, it's just too much of a huge life time-sink. At least I can step away from SWTOR, except for certain times during my class quests, where the story really shines. But when I think of how GREAT SWTOR could have been, hopefully could be, that's what is really the sad part. I'll make new friends in SWTOR, have fun, make alts, raid and PvP, but Star Wars is such an iconic platform that this game really could have made a difference vs. being yet just another dated MMO.

Peace.

[Aulisemia]

The game is basically KOTOR 3. Having played WoW for 7 years and having a lot of expectations for this game, I can say Bioware has mostly failed to keep me interested at 50. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though, they're just two different games. Hopefully the March update will breathe some life into the end game.

The good news is Bioware seems to be committed to improving the product, while Blizzard shoves Pandas down the pipeline to try and keep the money...I mean product alive.

[Kiasari]

It should have been a single player RPG, not an MMO. It would have been an amazing game as an RPG.

[Noomz]

An informative and well-phrased post I think reflects many other peoples opinions. Something I wish more people had about everything.
Though I fear the hardcore fans will come and tell you how you've "missed the story" or tell you to not express yourself just because you don't like it. Maybe even how you shouldn't be supposed to expect the game to be better then it is because "it's new".

[A Challenger!]

In this thread: People who thought SWTOR was WoW, and believe WoW is any different at 85.

The servers are growing each day, the game is growing more popular, why must this minority garbage filled with nothing but whine and baseless complaints litter these forums. Can no one use actual criticism anymore?

To add on, I really do not understand all these baseless complaints. I don't. You know what I miss? The glorious sandbox MMO that was SWG. I don't complain constantly about how SWTOR isn't SWG reincarnated. Are there things I am disappointed with in SWTOR? Yes. Do I think it is flawed? Yes. I do not think however it is beyond salvaging, and whatever complaints I do have, I use criticisms and not "OH LOL BAD UI, OH LOL NO ADDONS, OH LOL GTN IS CRAP!"

SWTOR is still a good MMO, not this abysmal garbage people keep complaining about. Will it overcome its deficits? Only time will tell.

[namelessone]

I'm thinking of TOR as a co-op cRPG, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it, playing with a friend. Once we get to 50 though - I'll be gone in a huff. Of course, maybe by the time I'll get to 50, some of the issues will be addressed.

[Chipz]

Last I checked for the GTN. I could search anything I wanted.

[Vegemeat]

In this thread: People who thought SWTOR was WoW, and believe WoW is any different at 85.

The servers are growing each day, the game is growing more popular, why must this minority garbage filled with nothing but whine and baseless complaints litter these forums. Can no one use actual criticism anymore?

To add on, I really do not understand all these baseless complaints. I don't. You know what I miss? The glorious sandbox MMO that was SWG. I don't complain constantly about how SWTOR isn't SWG reincarnated. Are there things I am disappointed with in SWTOR? Yes. Do I think it is flawed? Yes. I do not think however it is beyond salvaging, and whatever complaints I do have, I use criticisms and not "OH LOL BAD UI, OH LOL NO ADDONS, OH LOL GTN IS CRAP!"

SWTOR is still a good MMO, not this abysmal garbage people keep complaining about. Will it overcome its deficits? Only time will tell.

Obviously you missed the point and or didn't read the entire post. He listed several criticisms and why he disliked/liked them and let's be honest, it's 2012, BW delivered a game that would be considered good for 2005 not 2012.

People aren't asking them to reinvent the wheel, but don't take my money and tell me i'm getting something new and innovative when that's not the case.

[H3llkn1ght]

the problem is that when you reach lvl 50 you have nothing to do. Farming for the mounts could be done in a timespan of 3 days, raids will be cleared within 2 ids on nightmare . Sad buts that the truth ; /

[A Challenger!]

Obviously you missed the point and or didn't read the entire post. He listed several criticisms and why he disliked/liked them and let's be honest, it's 2012, BW delivered a game that would be considered good for 2005 not 2012.

People aren't asking them to reinvent the wheel, but don't take my money and tell me i'm getting something brand spanking new when that's not the case.

I did read it, and it is nothing but baseless whining and constant throwbacks to WoW. How is that criticism? More importantly, your last sentence, shouldn't you be taking that shtick to World of Warcraft? Dragon Soul was a cut-and-paste of Dragonblight and The Maelstrom, meanwhile the previous patch stuffed you full of the same cut and paste of the Zul instances.

So forgive me, but I guess I am failing to understand what makes an MMO "A 2012 MMO" and not just simply "A good game" regardless of era.

And to the above poster: This isn't a problem with SWTOR, but the MMO genre in general. For whatever reason, developers seem to think the journey begins at max level, not when you make your character. Perhaps I am spoiled off the MMO's of old, but I miss when it took you months of hard work to even begin to witness end game content, not this "50 /85 in a week" garbage.

[Ragepaw]

tell you to not express yourself just because you don't like it

Funny. because I wish people that don't like it would unsub and go away quietly. It's fine if you or anyone else doesn't like it. My enjoyment has nothing to do with anyone elses, but there is so much noise and QQing in forums that it drowns out any usefulness for people who actually do like it.

If you don't like it, stop doing it.

I used to bowl in a league. When I got bored and tired of it, I stopped going. I didn't show up for league night every week and complain to everyone who was having fun about how much I don't like bowling.

Posts like the OPs are usually only one of two things, attention whoring or troll baiting, neither of which is productive or useful.

If the OP really wanted his opinion to matter, then what he should have done was put all of that into an e-mail to CS at Bioware, then cancelled his sub. That would have far more impact and effect than posting random messages on a 3rd party site.

[torftw]

Just for the record there is a search on the gtn and it works just fine. Why they make you pick a category and subcategory instead of just letting you put it in I have no idea. But I have had 0 trouble finding whatever I needed.

As for the rest, sounds like mostly opinion and complaining it isn't as polished as a game that has had 7 more years of work poured into it.

All I know is I have been having more fun in swtor than I have in wow for a long time. Raiding, pvp, questing, theorycrafting, all much more fun to me than wow. I am sorry you don't feel the same but maybe you should look into it a bit more and you will find those lost complexities.

[vizzle]

Didn't know Vanilla WoW was released in 2001! So 5 years before BC was released?

[Diaxx]

Didn't know Vanilla WoW was released in 2001! So 5 years before BC was released?

It wasn't, it was released in 2004.

[Vegemeat]

I did read it, and it is nothing but baseless whining and constant throwbacks to WoW. How is that criticism? More importantly, your last sentence, shouldn't you be taking that shtick to World of Warcraft? Dragon Soul was a cut-and-paste of Dragonblight and The Maelstrom, meanwhile the previous patch stuffed you full of the same cut and paste of the Zul instances.

So forgive me, but I guess I am failing to understand what makes an MMO "A 2012 MMO" and not just simply "A good game" regardless of era.

And to the above poster: This isn't a problem with SWTOR, but the MMO genre in general. For whatever reason, developers seem to think the journey begins at max level, not when you make your character. Perhaps I am spoiled off the MMO's of old, but I miss when it took you months of hard work to even begin to witness end game content, not this "50 /85 in a week" garbage.

You obviously don't understand the definition of criticism (that is me criticizing you)

You don't purchase a patch, it simply provides more content to play with, your point about DS is moot. A MMO released in 2011-2012 should have some pretty standard stuff, especially when you're copying the WoW standard. A UI that isn't movable at the very LEAST, addons not being supported, bugs that were announced throughout the entirety of beta, releasing patches that break the game for hundreds of people, STILL not fixing ilum, people having to find workarounds to simply play the game with it's broken engine.

The list goes on and on, nothing is baseless when it comes to complaints about Swtor, so feel free to take a gander at the official forums if you'd like more hard evidence of the games short comings.

[A Challenger!]

You obviously don't understand the definition of criticism (that is me criticizing you)

You don't purchase a patch, it simply provides more content to play with, your point about DS is moot. A MMO released in 2011-2012 should have some pretty standard stuff, especially when you're copying the WoW standard. A UI that isn't movable at the very LEAST, addons not being supported, bugs that were announced throughout the entirety of beta, releasing patches that break the game for hundreds of people, STILL not fixing ilum, people having to find workarounds to simply play the game with it's broken engine.

The list goes on and on, nothing is baseless when it comes to complaints about Swtor, so feel free to take a gander at the official forums if you'd like more hard evidence of the games short comings.

Yeah, I clearly don't have a clue about criticism, when the grand majority of this thread thinks you and your friend are just committed to baseless whining. Right. My point about DS and the Zul rehashes is not moot either, unoriginal content is no excuse. I find it hilarious you are willing to turn the other cheek at WoW, but SWTOR is unforgivable. Then again, you say SWTOR is "copying the WoW standard". Your opinionated comments will get you no where.

You also tell me to look at the official forums? If people did that, we'd have no MMO's at all to play. Both the WoW forums, and the SWTOR forums are festering pits. I have no idea what the Rift forums are like, but I assume no better.

So once again I repeat myself, realizing that it is futile; your comments are baseless. Either give specific examples, or stop trying. Criticism needs specific examples in order to work, not throw backs.

When you learn to start looking at things objectively, make another post. Until then, go calm down. You're arguing with someone who is only seeing SWTOR as just another MMO. You want to truly complain about a flawed MMO? Go play FFXIV. SWTOR is fine, albeit buggy. Is it excellent? No. Does it have its multitudes of problems? Yes. So long as they are rectified though, they can be looked past. It all depends on how long that takes.

To the below poster, my issue personally is just with MMO's in general. If there is anything SWTOR does that is similar to WoW, it is end game, and that is the problem; that has become the standard for MMO's. The leveling process is now short, sweet, and "easy", only to realize the end is no different. In games like Everquest and DAoC, leveling was a serious hump. It really took time and effort to hit max level, and that was the fun in it. Getting there was half the accomplishment, and what awaited you, along with the vastness of the world, was the real challenge.

That feeling has just been sucked out of MMO's these days.

[alemaite]

Hit 50 with 2 chars then didn't resub. Story was great, questing was fun but the game just sucks after you're done questing. Raids are easy/boring PvP is just a grind the economy is a joke since there are people who went slicing from the start on like 10 alts and have trillions of credits. Doing dailies every single damn day for like 3 weeks or more just to get implants/ear is annoying ilum World PvP is a joke, looking for a group takes forever.... I mean it's just too many things that annoy me I didn't feel like logging in at all anymore. Also wth is wrong with the daily pvp quest how did BW not fix it, winning 5 times in a row and it not counting towards your dailies/weekly and then going on a losing streak is so freaking annoying.

[Jalek]

The reason people compare SWTOR to Vanilla is to say that WoW developed over time and that you can't expect a game to have every little feature immediately. I can understand some of the gripes about SWTOR but it is regularly patching improvements and delivering new content. Also I've had no performance issues at all.

There is plenty to do at max level with dungeons, dailies, exploration (datacrons etc), raids and pvp. All of them work and often are better than WoW equivalents in terms of RP and gameplay and the best bit is, they are still making improvements and adding more content!

I'll agree SWTOR isn't as developed or mature as WoW, but it started off very close and is improving weekly, where as WoW is stagnating and slowly slipping. I can barely log into WoW except to raid and that's only to play with my friends most of whom have also come to SWTOR.

People don't like being out of their comfort zone and it's easier just to go back to WoW where their friends than to play a new game that is not perfect and is taking a little while to develop.

[RoninaThorstone]

it's 2012.

Anyone else tired of this argument?

Its over-used, based on a sense of entitlement, unrealistic, and isn't really much of an argument.

All you are really saying is: I was expecting more X, Y, and Z even though bioware was focused on doing A, B, and C (and was very clear about it).

[Chipz]

Hit 50 with 2 chars then didn't resub. Story was great, questing was fun but the game just sucks after you're done questing. Raids are easy/boring PvP is just a grind the economy is a joke since there are people who went slicing from the start on like 10 alts and have trillions of credits. Doing dailies every single damn day for like 3 weeks or more just to get implants/ear is annoying ilum World PvP is a joke, looking for a group takes forever.... I mean it's just too many things that annoy me I didn't feel like logging in at all anymore. Also wth is wrong with the daily pvp quest how did BW not fix it, winning 5 times in a row and it not counting towards your dailies/weekly and then going on a losing streak is so freaking annoying.

Sounds like you were on a low pop server. That was probably your "gamebreaker"