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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Koalachan View Post
    He wrote them. In fact, originally he wrote two movies, and they made him pick one. He picked the second. When that proved to be too long of a movie they had him break it up into the three parts we now know. It also wasn't so much that he "had people telling him what to do" but more he asked for advice and didn't claim to know everything like he does now. Now a days he basically shuts down anyone who tries to stand up to him, because he claims he 'knows what they fans want.'

    These "facts" are mostly misconceptions spread by Lucas and fanboys.
    Last edited by empy; 2012-02-07 at 08:52 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jervaise View Post
    1-2-3 are better in acting
    I sincerely hope you mean actors like Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmid, Liam Neeson and Christopher Lee when you say "better acting".

    Because Hayden Christensen is not an actor.

    No.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by empy View Post
    These "facts" are mostly misconceptions spread by Lucas and fanboys.
    You're right. Behind the scenes interviews are all misconceptions spread by GL and fanboys.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zik3l View Post
    However watching the Older films, I couldn't help but think; "How does this make any sense to the audience without the first 3 films?"
    How could episode 4 NOT make sense to anyone? I mean, I was 7 or 8 when I first saw it and it was easy to understand even then. The big guy dressed in black is BAD, the scary space station firing giant lasers is BAD. Average joe hero, the damsel in distress, the old hermit/mentor, the dashing scoundrel and his trusty sidekick...it's all plain as day. Oh yeah, and the political situation: there is an evil empire, and there are the good rebels. I could never have grasped any of it without watching however many hours episodes 1-3 took up.
    Last edited by Notos; 2012-02-07 at 09:20 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Koalachan View Post
    You're right. Behind the scenes interviews are all misconceptions spread by GL and fanboys.
    There are numerous documentaries and publications that include interviews from people involved in the convoluted process of working with and fixing Lucas' original story.

  6. #46
    Never understood obsesion with Star Wars. As sci-fi it fails imo. Story - nothing smart or entertaining or fun, Lucas just isn't a good writer (yeah Indiana Jones sucks too for me).

    And I don't dislike old sci-fi. I find Alien very enjoyable and Issaac Asimov's books are top notch - that's even older than Star Wars.

    In 1979 Star Wars might made audience gasp with hyperspace jumps, but after 20 years there's no enduring value, lol.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zik3l View Post
    How funny that you started this thread OP. I did the exact same thing last weekend. Having been born in the early 90s, I remember when Phantom Menace came out and how I didn't really know anything about it but got dragged to the movie 9 times in the space of 3 weeks. I recently rented all the movies on Bluray and watched them all through in episode order.

    The first 3 movies I found excellent. The CGI was amazing, and the acting / storyline was compelling.

    The last 3 dragged on, I found them rushed and generally unpolished movies. When I saw Yoda for the first time in the 'original' movies I almost cried with disgust. I understand that they are old movies, and actually debated with my GF (who also watched them all with me) over should they remake them. There are absolutely cringe worthy moments (Such as when Han / Leiya land inside the huge worms mouth, and an 'earthquake' starts - they stumble around acting so poorly whilst the camera tilts) that made me not want to watch any more. I pressed on through the movies and at the end felt rather robbed of what could have been a much much better series.

    I am 20 now, these are my opinions on what I think about the Starwars movies. Maybe we are spoilt with advanced CGI and life-like acting these days, but it just doesn't cut it these days.

    I would love to see IV, V, VI remade in a tasteful manner. But I realize that there are many many many fans for Starwars out there who do not share the same opinion and wouldn't want to see a remake.
    I'm born in the 70ties, grew up with the first trilogy, and I went to see Phantom Menace in the cinema because I was totally psyched. It was one of the biggest disappointments ever. Jar Jar Binks is terrible. The story is terrible. The CGI makes everything look clinical. The movie had some good moments but overall I found it severely lacking. I lost interest in SW for years after it.

    My point? Your age may greatly influence which of the movies you like best.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    I'm born in the 70ties, grew up with the first trilogy, and I went to see Phantom Menace in the cinema because I was totally psyched. It was one of the biggest disappointments ever. Jar Jar Binks is terrible. The story is terrible. The CGI makes everything look clinical. The movie had some good moments but overall I found it severely lacking. I lost interest in SW for years after it.

    My point? Your age may greatly influence which of the movies you like best.
    This is the plain and simple truth.

  9. #49
    while I also prefer the old movies (born in the 70's) I do accept, that lucas actually repeated the huge success with the new movies. I have a younger brother at the age of 11 and he is a big fan, loads of kids that age are. (and they wouldn't be if it wasn't for the new trilogy)

  10. #50
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    Here's what the general public thinks:

    Episode IV - A New Hope (1977)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/
    - 8.8/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars/ - 94%

    Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080684/ - 8.8/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/empire_strikes_back/ - 97%

    Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086190/ - 8.3/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/return_of_the_jedi/ - 79%

    Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120915/ - 6.4/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star...hantom_menace/ - 60%

    Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121765/ - 6.8/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star...of_the_clones/ - 67%

    Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/ - 7.7/10
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_3/ - 80%

    I have to say I'm pretty much in agreement with those numbers. Then again, I watched the first three Star Wars movies as a child in the 80's, so I am biased. Although, pretty much everyone is biased; either you watched the original ones in an era without modern CGI, where they used miniatures and matte paintings, and you appreciated the movies for what they were then, OR you were born so late that green screen and CGI (and 3D, sigh) were the norm.

    Anyway, here's how it is: George Lucas Now and Then
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsi View Post
    Never understood obsesion with Star Wars. As sci-fi it fails imo. Story - nothing smart or entertaining or fun, Lucas just isn't a good writer (yeah Indiana Jones sucks too for me).

    And I don't dislike old sci-fi. I find Alien very enjoyable and Issaac Asimov's books are top notch - that's even older than Star Wars.

    In 1979 Star Wars might made audience gasp with hyperspace jumps, but after 20 years there's no enduring value, lol.
    The best part of the story is the EU. Try checking that out sometime and you'll see what all the fuss is about. Honestly, the GL stuff is actually some of the worst part of it. All he did was set up characters and a basic plot (the force, ooooooOOOOooo) and other people took it and made it better.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 02:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by empy View Post
    There are numerous documentaries and publications that include interviews from people involved in the convoluted process of working with and fixing Lucas' original story.
    Yes, as I said: Behind the scenes stuff. I lost faith in GL himself and anything he says long ago. When people first started the EU with the books and such, GL said he thought it was a great idea, and that he created a universe and only told one part of it and he was so glad other people got to expand on it. In more recent interviews about the EU, he said he doesn't care about it, he doesn't believe in any of it, and that he told the story of one person: Anakin Skywalker. That's the only story that matters, and he wishes the rest would go away.

    Basically, hesmadbro that other people are better writers than him and took his work and made it better.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro View Post
    The greatest misconception about the Star Wars films is its classification as a "science fiction film" as we might perceive the term today. I find Lucas' own term for his films a much more apt description: space opera. Just mull that over for a little while. Now before you call me an idiot, mull it over some more. Now before you still decide to call me an idiot, mull it over again. Do you get it now? Good.
    And what you are missing is that the acting is bad even by THOSE standards. Yes, he wasn't going for Citizen Kane...the problem is, he got acting and dialogue that's shitty even by PULP standards.

  13. #53
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    Starwars.com used to have an awesome expanded universe section, where you could find all kinds of official stuff pertaining to all the different aspects of the expanded universe; books, CCG, video games, and so on.

    I guess they gave up trying to maintain that site and now all that information is on Wookieepedia. That's fine, although that's a wiki, and people don't trust wikis. I don't mind the fact that they threw all the EU stuff out, because I'm glad it's got picked up by the wiki. Whether that was a move by Lucas to try and bury the EU side and some unrelated people started Wookieepedia, or whether Wookieepedia started out as an official wiki (it's "treated" as an official wiki by the official site, anyway), I don't know.

    http://www.starwars.com/explore/encyclopedia/

    That bothers me though. Now, I love the Clone Wars, and I know it's mainly for kids, but why make the official site aimed for five-year-olds? That kind of bothers me. Bad move on the web design. Sure, it's kid-friendly, but that doesn't sell it very well for us adults.
    've is short for have. C/Sh/Would've or c/sh/would have. Not c/sh/would of.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zik3l View Post
    Like I said, there are many people who do not feel as I do. However crying ignorance is rather out of line. I understand for their day they were amazing films. When I watch a film, I want to be engrossed in it. Seeing Yoda's mouth have an open and shut puppet like action does not appeal to me.

    "the films do not need to be remade to fit modern tastes, but rather, modern tastes need to be educated to appreciate the context of different, older styles" - Do you adapt to the future, or do you stay stubborn and claim that the basic methods were much better? Do you think that if the original movies were developed with today's technology back when they were first released people would have cried "We want to see puppets! It looks too real!" No. Their eyes would of orgasm'd and they would have exclaimed that this was the most insane thing since perforated toilet roll.

    The story line is awesome the universe they made was fantastic. Maybe I just prefer the story line of grandeur, when the Jedi's were a based civilization. However watching the Older films, I couldn't help but think; "How does this make any sense to the audience without the first 3 films?" Maybe that's the point, the surprise rather than the suspense of when it's going to be broken to the characters.

    TL;DR - Each to their own, I am not knocking fans of the old movies, I can see why there are so many, however I just think so much more could have been done. Too many people seem to fear change, embrace it.
    Seriously, watch those. The fact that you can think of Episode 1-3 as anything BUT an abomination and an affront to good taste really says something. The whole fundamental plot of 1-3 was stupidity incarnate fueled by crappy writing and a director who'd become so full of himself for being the creator of Star Wars the movie felt like it was trying to shoot you with laser beams rather than present a coherent and compelling story. The fact that you can claim that anything prequels makes sense but some how the originals don't make sense seriously blows my mind.

    Case in point: Darth Vader in the original series is a BAMF villain. You learn everything you need to know about him and especially and you feel almost sorry and at the end even glad that he was redeemed. You can tell he's someone not to be fucked with right from the get go and it carries on throughout the originals. The prequel anakin? Is a whiny twat who's "fall to the dark side" was more like watching a small child pissing and moaning about mommy taking him to the doctor rather than a tragic fall of a hero tempted by power. His love for padame was forced and largely unexplained other than he had a huge boy crush on her before his balls dropped and at one point in the movie he deliberately tries to murder the very reason he was supposedly being tempted to the dark side in the first place. Not like an "oops i went dark side and she died" which would have made sense he out right chokes the damn bitch all because she accidentally lead obi-wan to him. That's another we never see Anakin develop as a character. We get child anakin shoot right to whiny teenage anakin who then becomes whiny adult anakin with longer hair and not a single reason to give a flying fuck about the character other than the fact that we know eventually he becomes darth vader. I could go on for pages about the plot inconsistencies, crappy writing, and overall bland character development of the prequels but I think I've said enough.

    Mostly though you completely missed what he was actually saying to you. Take an old game like any Final Fantasy game(I personally despise the series but it's popular) or Zelda(take OoT or LTP), or even Kotor. All hugely and widely successful games. If you released any of those games today as they were they would not be anywhere near as critically acclaimed. That doesn't mean any of those are shitty games. For their time they were amazing and best sellers and they largely hold up when you replay them. Remaking those games just "updating" the original films is ass face retarded and being overly critical of what many years ago was pretty amazing special effects is equally disingenuous. CGI does not make the movie. Just look at the umpteen billion special edition star wars collections. Does adding another 200 screen clogging CGI animals add more to the story? Fuck no it doesn't and I'd contend that a lot of the CGI in the prequels actually looks more fake than the original special effects. 90% of the prequels is two jack asses walking around or sitting on a couch in a blue screen set. The over digitizing went too far and instead of enhancing the story the story became a vehicle to jam as much special effects into your eye as they could in any given scene. In all honesty I feel like the prequels would have been better had they been made when the originals were because they might have actually had to shoot on location or develop sets. I mean hell you remember when Obi Wan watches Grevious(another why the fuck does he exist character in the prequels) bust out his 4 sabers not 10 feet from him? The guy doesn't even flinch because even though he's an excellent actor it's pretty damn hard to react to something that isn't there. Most of the prequels looked fake or drawn in because it was so extensively CGI'd. I'd take old school Yoda puppet in an actual swap over the Mustafar battle which shit all over your suspension of disbelief and was so over the top it makes me gag.

    Let me put it this way if Yoda was CGI in the original movies would he have been a more compelling character? I think not. You can piss and moan about puppetry, and really yoda was actually pretty well done for a puppet, but the fact is that wasn't what made yoda yoda. Yoda was supposed to be the ultimate force mystic, you never once see him train luke with a light saber
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixuzcc View Post
    Because Hayden Christensen is not an actor.
    I feel a little sorry for Hayden Christensen after Star Wars. He gets so much hate for his role. And while he didn't do a great job, I think most of the poor performance comes from the cringe-worthy dialog and appalling writing.

    It can be hard at times to separate bad acting from bad writing and I think the prequels suffer from the latter more than anything else.

  16. #56
    High Overlord Shonny Kash's Avatar
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    TESB > ANH > TNG = DS9 > Starcrash > ROTJ > VOY > Enterprise > Battlefield Earth > TPM > The Galaxy Invader > Plan 9 From Outer Space > ROTS > Avatar > AOTC
    Last edited by Shonny Kash; 2012-02-07 at 12:17 PM.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysaber View Post
    I really wish netflix wasn't such a ripoff. i'd go stream me some SW right now but its not available for instant queue, like 90% of all good movies... instead, i'm expected to load a frickin DVD into a machine. wtf is this, 1998?

    i'll be happy when my HTPC parts get here so i can finally get it built and rip all my stuff onto 10 terabytes of HDs...
    1998: I really wish Dvd's weren't such a rip off, I'd go watch me some SW right now but it's checked out at Blockbuster, like 90% of all good movies... instead, i'm expected to rewind a frickin VHS in the machine, wtf is this, 1988?

    I'll be happy when my CD-RW part gets here so i can finally get all my stuff burned onto VCD...

    but seriously, too lazy to load a dvd into the player? wtf?
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  18. #58
    Old God adam86shadow's Avatar
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    The only observation I made was how detached SWTOR actually felt from the movie franchise

  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire Nilan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    The only observation I made was how detached SWTOR actually felt from the movie franchise
    Because that's like saying WoW is detached from the happenings of WC1. Because it happened a long time before.

    George "Toyboy" Lucas did at one point mention that there were more aspects of the prequel trilogy aimed at kids - Anakin, Jar Jar etc. Obviously by Revenge of the Sith, he took complaints on-board - Graphic decapitation, force choking a pregnant woman, SLJ barely stopping himself from asking the Emperor if he looks like a bitch, etc.

    I have no complaints about #3 other than Haydens wooden acting. Poor lines are only responsible for so much. You can't blame the writing on his slightly confused, befuddled angry little boy glare he wears the ENTIRE MOVIE. McGregor came out looking ok despite the same writer. #1 obviously being universally slated for just reasons. Jar Jar, underwater city, overuse of CGI characters and animals, stupid battle in a field under big blue bubbles (Hey guys, look at this! A shield! How qaint. Get one of our starships to fire its turbolasers at them, we only want to strip mine the planet anyway), Jar Jar, Poorly timed lines, slightly unplausable rescue, Jar Jar...

    But personally (Don't kill me) other than the last 15minutes of ESB (Best 15minutes of Cinema), I prefered ROTJ overall. 6-5-3-4-2-1 in my eyes.

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  20. #60
    In This Thread: Everyone is a critic and if you don't agree with their factual opinions you are ignorant and have bad taste.

    It makes sense to me that the older generation would continue liking 4-6, I mean, that's when the Imperials were winning, and that's the generation in control of our government.

    To see people cry and complain that they think movies have too much CGI or should go back to the way they used to be is like wanting to go back to the Great Depression, that older generation doesn't want anyone else to be happy, they hate seeing people happy, they want you to share in their misery. Lol.

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