Why is LK25 Hmode still too hard for PUGs?

[DemoBytom]

Because no matter of gear or level, if you stand in Straps and don't switch to valkyrs fast enough it's never going down.

Naah you can ignore valkyrs and just life grip/sacrifice few people. As long as people don't wipe the raid with defiles, raw DPS should be enough to brute force him rather quickly

[Uvania]

Shadow traps are hard to move from.. Defile is impossible for puggers to stay spread at.. and they don't know what switching to val'kyrs are and neither do they know where to move to get dispelled in p1 or understand that they have to move out to the edge at p2 and move in again before p2 ends.. thats the common reasons why i've wiped on lk 25 hc and normal

[Fiana]

I really dunno why..fail.

All pugs fail.
But its always raid leaders fault. If your pug can't kill boss from the previous content, its always raid leaders fault.

[Frozenshadow]

Because it was a fight which was about the execution, and not simply a dps check.
Not enough fights like that.

This is pretty much it. Lich King expansion had a lot of such encounters, especially in in 3.3 and 3.1.

[Un0]

Shadowtrap, Defile....

[Shilz]

because DEFILE!

[Deleted]

LK HC is easily puggable, but you have to be selective with who you take. You need people who have at least done it on normal or it's just not worth bothering with.

[Veroly]

heroic lich king is a joke now a while back i was farming heroic icc for the gear i vendored as well as to finish my alts shadowmourne, The best way to do heroic Lich king now Is this phase one zerg asap, have 4 markers on the side 1-2 3-4 r red-blue green - yellow have all ranged stack on 1 and 3 when trap lands on 1 move to 2 when it lands on 3 move to 4 if it lands on melee move. SIMPLE.

phase 2 all ranged burn boss
have 2 ranged on orbs.
have melee burn ghosts.
Phase 3. pop Lust burn boss when valks spawn leave them let the first 3 die no matter what burn bosswhen the second load of valks come by he will either be in p2 again or about to go when they pick up new people they will be droped onto the side which has regrown from P2.

in P4 burn boss when you get nom'd follow one person second you get out of frostmourne room Spread the fuck because 100% of the time the second you get out of frostmourne a defile spawns, kill ghosts repeat to 10% enjoy your easy as shit title.

[Szemere]

You: Make sure to move out of shit INSTANTLY.
Them: derp, moving, really, this is old content man... *proceeds to stand in black shit either knocking everyone off the platform or covering the entire platform with it*

[navai]

Because H LK was about mechanics, of course DPS did matter too.

Though now you can completely ignore the valks and just let people be dropped off as long as the players have decent dps, but, other mechanics can still wipe the raid.

That's the one aspect I'll like about H Madness when I get to it, it's all about DPS/CD utilization.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but whilst Madness has the CD utilization on tank impales and the DPS check is actually a decent dps check unlike the shit heap of a boss before it besides that its a case of "get past platform 4", "dont suck at AoE/Slowing" ??? Profit.

4:30 hours on the boss we're consistently hitting platform 4 which is the hardest dps check obviously due to no slow on bolt, the 2 corrupting parasites having to die in 8 seconds along with the aoe of blood on the 2nd parasite, not to mention having to kill the mutated corruption before the 2nd parasite as well as the 2 sets of blistering on a raid with less health, less healing taken, no dream due to not being on Ysera platform and no haste buff from Nozdormu,then nuking the wing with personals etc but in comparison to Heroic Lich King ( a fight I also killed when it was current content) sadly Madness doesnt even half stand up to it.

I fully expect to kill it 1-2 hours into raid on Wednesday(EU reset). 6:30 hours raiding on the final boss in the patch and main antagonist of the expansion? Compared to surplus of 500 wipes on H Rag, 300~ wipes on H LK.

It's a shame really . DW in the DS raid had so much potential and the fight is just nowhere near as epic as some other end raid encounters - Sinestra, Heroic Ragnaros2.0, Illidan, Kil'Jaeden, Heroic LK all massively dwarf Madness Heroic, and even thinking of Spine & Madness combined does not come close, because Spine was such a badly tuned boss that required stacking of classes such as Mage,Rogue and Ret due to the sheer burst potential of the class to kill it early, or a very high gear requirement to do it with a generic setup that ran at most 3-4 mages opposed to 5-7.

[skrump]

Because both Sindragosa and Lk were designed around mechanics that will always wtfpwn baddies.

The big difference that makes Lk seem harder (even though he is actually the easier of the 2 fights) is Defile allows the baddies to kill everybody instead of just themselves.

[Machriren]

I quite like watching pugs try and do ToC 25 hard modes.

AHHHH the torment

[MrPaladinGuy]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but whilst Madness has the CD utilization on tank impales and the DPS check is actually a decent dps check unlike the shit heap of a boss before it besides that its a case of "get past platform 4", "dont suck at AoE/Slowing" ??? Profit.

4:30 hours on the boss we're consistently hitting platform 4 which is the hardest dps check obviously due to no slow on bolt, the 2 corrupting parasites having to die in 8 seconds along with the aoe of blood on the 2nd parasite, not to mention having to kill the mutated corruption before the 2nd parasite as well as the 2 sets of blistering on a raid with less health, less healing taken, no dream due to not being on Ysera platform and no haste buff from Nozdormu,then nuking the wing with personals etc but in comparison to Heroic Lich King ( a fight I also killed when it was current content) sadly Madness doesnt even half stand up to it.

It's a shame really . DW in the DS raid had so much potential and the fight is just nowhere near as epic as some other end raid encounters - Sinestra, Heroic Ragnaros2.0, Illidan, Kil'Jaeden, Heroic LK all massively dwarf Madness Heroic, and even thinking of Spine & Madness combined does not come close, because Spine was such a badly tuned boss that required stacking of classes such as Mage,Rogue and Ret due to the sheer burst potential of the class to kill it early, or a very high gear requirement to do it with a generic setup that ran at most 3-4 mages opposed to 5-7.

You didn't say anything that disagrees with what I said, you agreed with it.

I'm assuming Madness is a DPS check, H LK was primarily a mechanic check, but you obviously needed the dps for it as well.

What I stated was that I'm looking forward to H Madness.

[Deleted]

1 very simple reason. When going to low lvl stuff ppl put on their DERP brains and think that they don't need any kind of strategy or teamwork whatSOever. They think they are OP and awesome and can just go in there and massively gank everything to death. And once they realize they can't, they leave. And voila, you just wasted 4 hours of your day putting the shizz team together and getting your asses there.

thats pretty much it! good post, exactly what we have on our server, but actually its now so easy to down him, that even a pretty bad PUG does it within 10 tries or so..The most annoying part is that after each wipe you have to teleport to SW to look for new players...

[Deleted]

/2 LFM ICC25 HC

Make folling macro's :

/rw SHADOW TRAP MOVE
/rw DEFILE MOVE

When the spells come, spam macro's...
???
Profit!

[Chaoticflame]

LK 25 HEROIC? On my realm? In a PUG? You must be insane. We didn't even get realm first from our TOP guilds until AFTER Cata started. I went on a PUG ICC 25 a month or two back, all on NORMAL mode, and there ended up being about FIVE of us left to finish bringing him down to 10%, from like...15 or 17%. It was horrible. >_< And I've never even DONE LK. Hell, I never got to Putricide and I still managed to live. There's something wrong with that. :<

[Deleted]

Take a good DK tank + 2 decent dps, preferbly both of them rogues and you easily kill it with 3 people...
I could probably even duo it with one of my guilds rogues, seeing as it was faceroll with two of them. You need ~100k Raiddps to kill before it enrages, one of the rogues is almost enough to meet the reqs, 80k DPS per rogue and 45k tank dps makes 205k. So you basically need 2x 40k DPS + tank dps. every decent dd should be able to pull that off considering the 30% buff lol

[vian]

Because it takes half a brain to do it.

[Fullgore]

Shadow traps & Defile...

Kinda like the fact that noobs can't down it

[koimagheul]

because LK was what madness is not. distinct phases that required both execution and dps VS herp derp shoot whatever comes at you. again. and again.