Women getting closer to actual Combat Arms MOS

[Astounded]

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-so...003743068.html

Here's my take on this.

We know that they're pushing for "equality" in the service and women being allowed to serve in the infantry is probably inevitable. Yet while striving for this goal no one takes into account that women have different PHYSICAL standards than men do to serve in the same role. Yes, I understand that women are the "fairer" sex and they can not be expected to be able to have the sheer strength of the average man. However, how can we expect the combat arms professions to have any respect for a woman in their service unless they are held to the exact same standard as any male doing the same job?

Now this isn't to say I haven't seen some butch ass women in the military who could easily complete the male standard for fitness. Just saying I've only seen a few.

[medievalman1]

One word-Aikido

[Astounded]

One word-Aikido

Please tell me what that martial art has to do with helping women to be able to complete the fitness tests of the respective branches of the military at the same level as their male peers? And how is it going to help them carry the same weight?

[Jasyn]

I don't think it's unfair to ask for the same standard, regardless of sex.

[ElAmigo]

I agree Jasyn, to not do so would kind of defeat the purpose of equality amirite??

[obdigore]

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-so...003743068.html

Here's my take on this.

We know that they're pushing for "equality" in the service and women being allowed to serve in the infantry is probably inevitable. Yet while striving for this goal no one takes into account that women have different PHYSICAL standards than men do to serve in the same role. Yes, I understand that women are the "fairer" sex and they can not be expected to be able to have the sheer strength of the average man. However, how can we expect the combat arms professions to have any respect for a woman in their service unless they are held to the exact same standard as any male doing the same job?

Now this isn't to say I haven't seen some butch ass women in the military who could easily complete the male standard for fitness. Just saying I've only seen a few.

Congrats? I've seen men not be accepted into the military because they weren't strong enough, and I thought that is what basic was for.

As long as the strenght/fitness requirements don't change, I don't see a problem with women serving in the military

[Maleia]

We know that they're pushing for "equality" in the service and women being allowed to serve in the infantry is probably inevitable. Yet while striving for this goal no one takes into account that women have different PHYSICAL standards than men do to serve in the same role.

then* >_>

<Infracted>

[Sunseeker]

Do they have a different test? Last I heard they had to meet the same physical standards(which really aren't that high anyway), and it's basic training that's supposed to whip you into shape anywho.

[Cottonmouth]

Congrats? I've seen men not be accepted into the military because they weren't strong enough, and I thought that is what basic was for.

As long as the strenght/fitness requirements don't change, I don't see a problem with women serving in the military

Chicks already have it easier than men in the military basic wise...what he is saying is how can they be expected to get respect the same as a man when they don't go through mens basic...it's like army and marine bootcamp for men one is lesser than the other so you can't go into the marines after completing army bootcamp without doing the marines...but you can do it the other way around

[yetgdhfgh]

Its not a matter of ability its a matter of morale

Guys dont like the idea of fighting and dying alongside girls.

Its a natural instinct that us guys have, war is not a competitive sport war is brutal and at times especially in places like iraq can get very down and personal ive heard stories from my army brother about guys having to use baronets on insurgents cause the fighting gets really close and bloody.


I dont doubt girls abilities i know that alot could easily pass the fitness test

[Cottonmouth]

the difference is the ability to carry the weight of a full grown man. Women in general are smaller than a man and can you expect a small say 140 lb chick at best to carry a 220-230 lb guy?

[Astounded]

then* >_>

Thank you for your useful post.

[herpecin]

there are a few reasons why women arent allowed in front line military operations in the US(and a few other western) military's.

one of them being the physical part you pointed out, if an infantryman has to carry a 100lbs pack around all day and still be expected to sprint, jump, etc. and a person cannot fill that role(regardless of chromosomes) then they shouldn't be in that position. where a male can be physically trained in the matter of a few weeks-months depending on starting point to achieve this goal, for females it takes longer due to their inability to gain muscle.

another is tradition. for a very very long time the men went off to war and the women stayed behind, and that has been brought over and a few of the more "dangerous" parts of the military are still off limits to females. while many will find this thinking doesn't work in today's world it is still a reality.

the last one im going to bring up the medical one. no im not talking about the different medical needs of males and females, but rather the recorded evidence that male medical officers triy to help injured females that they shouldn't(due to injuries that are too severe) and cost more live then they save.

my personal view, if a woman can meet the current male standards for an MOS then they should be able to get it, standards should be the same(equality is a bitch aint it) no matter your gender. but as it stands not many women can meet them, and women are simply better then men at other things. and we should place people in the area's where they are most apt(once again regardless of gender).

[Sunseeker]

the difference is the ability to carry the weight of a full grown man. Women in general are smaller than a man and can you expect a small say 140 lb chick at best to carry a 220-230 lb guy?

Could you expect 140 lb guy to carry a 220lb guy? I doubt it. Most women in the service ain't tiny ladies.

[Astounded]

Could you expect 140 lb guy to carry a 220lb guy? I doubt it. Most women in the service ain't tiny ladies.

Yes, I can expect that. I've also witnessed it.

[Cottonmouth]

Could you expect 140 lb guy to carry a 220lb guy? I doubt it. Most women in the service ain't tiny ladies.

Actually have seen smaller guys carry larger guys. Very rare to find a girl who can do the same

[Astounded]

Do they have a different test? Last I heard they had to meet the same physical standards(which really aren't that high anyway), and it's basic training that's supposed to whip you into shape anywho.

http://www.military.com/military-fit...smc-pft-charts

Note that Men are required to do full pull ups. No kipping, no swinging. Arms fully locked out and then chin above the bar 20 times for a perfect score on that segment. Women do a "flexed arm hang." They hang there. Men are also required to run 3 miles in 18 minutes. Women? 21 minutes.

[jk5834]

then* >_>

Your Grammar Nazi skills are sub par.

[Jasyn]

I agree Jasyn, to not do so would kind of defeat the purpose of equality amirite??

This is actually a huge pet peeve of mine.

Demanding equality, but then turning around and saying you have special needs. Which is it? Equal, or special?

Edit: (This goes for sex, sexual preference, race, etc - equal is equal in my mind)

[xenaros]

I think it is fair to require women to have the same physical standards as a male, for a certain job. A bullet doesn't care if you're a man or a woman, if you can't perform to the job you're required to do then you are a burden to your team, and putting them at higher risk.

Women could get it easier by saying 'ok, you don't have to carry heavy packs if you can't', but that is not equality and that will mean that other's are carrying her share for her. Some men are less strong than some women, but they bulk up and pass the tests.

I think the women that are dedicated will get themselves to physical strength, if some women don't think they should have to because it ruins their body or whatever, then fuck them, the military doesn't need people looking for an easy ride. Respect to the women who do try, they deserve as much right to be doing the jobs they want to if they are capable of passing the tests.