My issues with Warlocks.

[Damsbo]

Idk about the low lvl dungeons or pvp, havnt been there in a couple of months; even so, dafuq does any of that matter?
I only PvP now, since I got tired of raiding. But my experince with locks, is the same as with hunters - they are easy to be "good" at, but nearly impossible to be awesome with. But once you are (not saying I am), you're a god.

[Vizier]

Yeah, yeah
When I walk by, lad
Mages be lookin' like "Damn, he bad"
I cast to the beat, runnin' on my feet in my old Tier 3, yeah
This is how I play, big purple robes that always sway
It's Melllvar with with the big-ass post, and like Steve King he's bout to glow, yeah

(Ahhhh)
Girl, look at that Warlock
(Ahhhh)
Girl, look at that Warlock
(Ahhhh)
Girl, look at that Warlock
...I suck Bad!

When I walk in the pit
This is what I see
All the Priests are stoppin' and starin' at me
I've got demons in my pants, and I ain't afraid to use 'em
use 'em
use 'em
use 'em
...I'm terrible and I know it!

[Buttfear]

A. Warlocks need defense against melee.

B. Affliction needs it's self healing un-nerfed.

C. Warriors, Rogues, Death Knights should have ZERO self healing.

[Szemere]

Okay, I'm gonna respond here, didn't read half your thread, but the reason I could see from skimming, didn't cover this.

Warlock delivers one of the most fun rotations out of the whole World of Warcraft. Destruction is a hard to master, awareness demanding, stay-awake spec. Now I know there are harder specs out there, but I couldn't do with another spec. Let's take the Mage example I read in your post.
-Arcane: I will never be able to live with a rotation. Seriously, cast X Arcane Blasts, cast Arcane Missiles or Arcane Barrage, cast X Arcane Blast. I know the timing of changing the X from 3-5 to infinite (aka burn phase) is the thing that requires mastery to figure out, but I would totally lose focus if that's what I'm doing all the time. A definite no-go for me.
-Fire: 1 DoT, a hard-hitting nuke on proc, a long cooldown in the form of fire orb, Fireball. Lining up DoTs when Combustion is available. I would fall asleep, and wake up when Combustion is ready to line up my DoTs. AoE rotation is decently interesting, tho Fire on bosses like Ultraxion would bore the hell out of me.
-Frost: Apart from not being viable yet (MoP will fix it), also not the most involving. Through RNG you either have a shitload of FoF or none when you don't use certain cooldowns. No FoF up: Frostbolt. FoF up: Deep Freeze, otherwise FFB if proc, otherwise Ice Lance. Some kind of thing exists with saving up FoF's depending on cooldown and stuff. Cooldowns as Freeze FFO and the hasty thing get reset by cold snap. The only interesting thing there to me, is how to correctly use FoF charges and cold snap timings. For the rest: way too much spamming a single spell.

Okay, then compare to warlock:
I'll keep it to all specs:
-3 DoTs. A short cooldown nuke to be used when possible. Soulburn to be used. Filler nuke to be used. One spec changes filler nuke depending on proc (sboltdemo), one spec has another short cooldown nuke, as well as a different nuke to be casted once every 20 secs to keep up a buff. One spec fully focused around timing cooldowns on top of this. All specs have unlimited multidotting with 3 DoTs per target, (bane/immo/corr).

Overall, you'll see this is a lot more complicated than any mage spec. Of course, all of these specs have certain utility that is fun to use. But really, I wouldn't want to trade my warlock for any of those mage specs. I'd fall asleep.

/endrant

TLDR: Other specs might be "better" and stuff, but are nowhere near as fun to play, if you like to actually have to pay some attention to what spell you have to cast next. I know affliction isn't that interesting on single-target, but that's why I don't play the spec :P

[DeulonUS]

I just finished leveling and gearing a warlock, I made him exactly one week ago (last Monday). Right now he is level 85 with a 385 ilvl equipped. It was BY FAR the fastest character I have leveled to 85, and I have an 85 of every class except rogue/shaman.

As far as PVE goes, I would hardly say warlocks are underpowered, or anything of the sort. Even being slightly undergeared compared to the rest of my raid group, I am still pulling somewhat competitive numbers. Honestly though, the only reason I leveled and geared this warlock so fast is so that our spriest with the legendary would quit bitching about not having DI, so as long as he gets that everyone is happy.

As far as PVP goes, well I don't know shit, because I haven't done any pvp on this character yet

[Buttfear]

In PvP they are fine -

As long as they have a lot of support.

[Joodoc]

I know I don't have a massive post count a shiny picture underneath my post but here me out.

I came back to Warcraft a few days ago, I haven't played for over six months and I decided upon returning to the game to give time to my warlock (gnome ftw) who was sitting around lv 35 ish and for which I'd pvp'd pretty much relentlessly before the patch, It was also fully heir-loomed equipped because at the start of the year I leveled up a mage...

Now heres my point. If someone was to ask me 'what class should I be? A Warlock or a Mage.' I would say Mage 100% of the time. Warlocks are so much worse than Mages It's pretty shameful tbh.

Now I know people will ring out 'game is only balanced for lv 85' or 'warlocks pwn in arena' or 'lol another mages are op thread' or something but I just need to vent what I know to be true.

PVE

If your levelling up a warlock through the dungeon finder your dps will always be worse than a similairly geared frost or arcane mage. On one end are cast times are huge while dots on enemies that with todays upgraded classes steamroll through most dungeon mobs and bosses and are pretty neglible compared to massive nukes such as frostbolt and arcane blast. Fire under level 70 doesnt have the crit rating to be as good early on but it's still comparative with any warlock spec.

PVP

Anyone will tell you that Frost mages are the demi gods of -85 pvp. Lets say a rogue sneaks up on a mage, now firstly I'll have ice shield and mana shield up, second I'll freeze them in place, blink and then nuke accordingly, dead rogue, simple. A Warlock doesn't get teleport until LEVEL 78! By that time he'll have been ganked by hundreds of rogues because of terrible mobility, dots which means he has to outlast enemies in an environment which is never 1 on 1, pitiful self healing, fear which can be 'resisted' (yeah thanks for that) and of course no shield other than 1 which is only marginally useful if you go destruction

Oh and speaking of destruction, incinerate, arguably the most important move in a Destro lok's arsenal, is learnt at lv 64! Thats like Mages learning arcane missiles around the lv 50 mark.

Utility
Again the Mage wins, so from early levels you can teleport freely across azeroth, comparable to warlocks... oh yeah. They never have to buy food again (yeah those reagent bills must sting) and of course the fact that they have moves like the aforementioned blink, invisibility, ice block, the list could go on.

Warlocks are according to warcraftrealms are least played class in the game. Next time you do a Battleground at any level note the warlock pop, I'd say in 70-80 of all my bg's I've been the only 1. Like I said Blizzard knows it, Warlocks are gonna be lethal in Mists, self healing at level 15, improved demons, death coil on a 45 second CD (finally!) a Pala bubble as well no less, Blizzard seemingly know that the advertisement for Warlocks atm is pretty dire compared to Mages, who they will always be judged against.

All this said, I'm still gonna level this warlock and hopefully main it, I know that Warlocks aren't completely gimped and there are times when I think 'yep this is the class I wanna main' but sometimes I really think Blizzard just ignored them. Maybe because the Lok community is so small anyway that they're voice isnt loud enough.

Anyone agree or think that I'm giving warlocks a raw deal?

Reagant costs are more expencive than locks, cause I never eat or drink on my warlock. and maybe you don't know how to play your warlock, I often see locks do good dps in those fights, and they can burst really strong. plus aff can heal so much better than a mage.

[Nest]

A. Warlocks need defense against melee.

B. Affliction needs it's self healing un-nerfed.

C. Warriors, Rogues, Death Knights should have ZERO self healing.

A. Warlocks should have less defense against both melee and caster.
B. No
C. And no
If there is any Warlock playing with a Resto Shaman + 1 random DPS in 3v3 and struggling at 2k ratings, then I got some sad news for you... ;<
So many trolls in this thread. x-D

[Retror]

I honestly can't tell if you have ever done arenas in your WoW life. This thread is screaming troll.

Infracted.

[Last Starfighter]

don't worry, us mages are getting nerfed very soon. And yes, I hate my Lock so much right now, not really fun to play on at all.

Wait...you play a mage and you're talking about locks not being fun?

[wynterlyn]

I know I don't have a massive post count a shiny picture underneath my post but here me out.

I came back to Warcraft a few days ago, I haven't played for over six months and I decided upon returning to the game to give time to my warlock (gnome ftw) who was sitting around lv 35 ish and for which I'd pvp'd pretty much relentlessly before the patch, It was also fully heir-loomed equipped because at the start of the year I leveled up a mage...

Now heres my point. If someone was to ask me 'what class should I be? A Warlock or a Mage.' I would say Mage 100% of the time. Warlocks are so much worse than Mages It's pretty shameful tbh.

Now I know people will ring out 'game is only balanced for lv 85' or 'warlocks pwn in arena' or 'lol another mages are op thread' or something but I just need to vent what I know to be true.

PVE

If your levelling up a warlock through the dungeon finder your dps will always be worse than a similairly geared frost or arcane mage. On one end are cast times are huge while dots on enemies that with todays upgraded classes steamroll through most dungeon mobs and bosses and are pretty neglible compared to massive nukes such as frostbolt and arcane blast. Fire under level 70 doesnt have the crit rating to be as good early on but it's still comparative with any warlock spec.

PVP

Anyone will tell you that Frost mages are the demi gods of -85 pvp. Lets say a rogue sneaks up on a mage, now firstly I'll have ice shield and mana shield up, second I'll freeze them in place, blink and then nuke accordingly, dead rogue, simple. A Warlock doesn't get teleport until LEVEL 78! By that time he'll have been ganked by hundreds of rogues because of terrible mobility, dots which means he has to outlast enemies in an environment which is never 1 on 1, pitiful self healing, fear which can be 'resisted' (yeah thanks for that) and of course no shield other than 1 which is only marginally useful if you go destruction

Oh and speaking of destruction, incinerate, arguably the most important move in a Destro lok's arsenal, is learnt at lv 64! Thats like Mages learning arcane missiles around the lv 50 mark.

Utility
Again the Mage wins, so from early levels you can teleport freely across azeroth, comparable to warlocks... oh yeah. They never have to buy food again (yeah those reagent bills must sting) and of course the fact that they have moves like the aforementioned blink, invisibility, ice block, the list could go on.

Warlocks are according to warcraftrealms are least played class in the game. Next time you do a Battleground at any level note the warlock pop, I'd say in 70-80 of all my bg's I've been the only 1. Like I said Blizzard knows it, Warlocks are gonna be lethal in Mists, self healing at level 15, improved demons, death coil on a 45 second CD (finally!) a Pala bubble as well no less, Blizzard seemingly know that the advertisement for Warlocks atm is pretty dire compared to Mages, who they will always be judged against.

All this said, I'm still gonna level this warlock and hopefully main it, I know that Warlocks aren't completely gimped and there are times when I think 'yep this is the class I wanna main' but sometimes I really think Blizzard just ignored them. Maybe because the Lok community is so small anyway that they're voice isnt loud enough.

Anyone agree or think that I'm giving warlocks a raw deal?

You have obviously never played against a lock but I tell you one thing that is worse than a rogue being all up in your ass is a Lock chain casting fear and DOTing you.

However, to add a more constructive response, warlocks like fire mages have a hard time competing in the DPS race till around level 70+. The thing is most of your group is pretty much decked out in Heirlooms. Mobs don't even last long enough to make your DoTs effective. Even when I spec fire, most mobs are dead by the time I finish casting fireball/pyroblast. I only rely on Fire to AoE (blast wave/flamestrike). The bosses in TBC are down within 10 secs literally. I chain ran a few TBC dungeons on my mage as fire. I had every single boss down in less than 10 secs. The tanks were doing more DPS than everyone in the group. That normally happens till around level 70 I've known.

The only class that really shines throughout the levelling race are Hunters. They have do a lot of burst/instant damage. But any class that spends half their time hardcasting is going to suck until WTLK where mobs live for a bit longer.

As to why locks are the least played class; the main reason is probably if someone had to chose between a mage or a lock, a majority (around 99%) of them are going to chose a mage. Why would you chose a class when another does as well and in most cases better with the least amount of "key smashing" and least effort required. You also have the added burden of managing a pet. I ain't saying mages are face roll as I play one but they really don't need to be played perfectly to get maximum output as you would have to with a warlock. You don't even have to manage your CDs and keep spamming AB and still come out top 3 in DPS.

However, I did try levelling a lock before I did a mage because I loved the dark side of it. Another thing that got me was that warlocks were "banished" from the kingdom of SW and they had their trainers underground/below some inn. However, the quest chain to summon your demons was a real pain. You had to go all over Azeroth. I ended up in the Barrens to speak to some dude. This was when the Alliance didn't have any flight paths there. So you had to walk all down through STV and take the boat to Ratchet and ride to the Barrens. I deleted her at around the mid twenties.

It has been a few years now since I've played a lock and I found that it was pretty fun especially in PVP. However, after having playing a Shadow Priest since then I would prefer playing a Spriest than a lock. Warlocks have changed a lot with the introduction of new spells in Cataclysm. It is only going to get better in MoP but I found it a very overwhelming class as I progressed. There are just too many spells and abilities to keep track off. Most people that do play the class now are mostly those that enjoy the class and get satisfaction from competing with other classes by playing it to its fullest.

[Deleted]

ignore the numbers, locks are much more fun to play, and mages are mindnumbingly boring. Thats something they have going for them.

[chunkycarl]

Leveling my druid tank recently in an attempt to get more alts on my new server, and the only DPs which came close to me on damage (chain pulling dungeons) were locks (and the occasional paladin later on in strat etc) i'd say their damage is fine in that sence.

[Mammoon]

6/10. Would rate you lower but clearly a lot of people took the bait.

Infracted.

[Jessicka]

Bake our present tier bonuses into our talents, and Warlocks are fine. I dunno what MoP will hold exactly, no one does, but on the face of what we do know; our rotations are being butchered. That is not cool. I like the challenging playstyle as it is.

[Artravus]

It doesn't matter what low level performance is for one. Second, fire may be OP in PvE, and frost may be OP in PvP, but all three warlock specs are very good, and the mage isn't the only class in the game.

[asharia]

uuuuh

warlocks are in a great place. UA is irreplaceable

[ambigiouslynamed]

Frost mages are fine in high level arenas. They only dominate BG's and low level Arenas. I do think they have excessive CC but that will be changed in MoP.

Rogues on the other hand, are pretty much unstoppable by all casters... Frost mages can't really deal with them either, although they deal with them the best out of all the casters.

You forget that rogues can silence and slow a mage for ages, which not even frost mages can counter.

im calling BS on anything you say if you are going to claim rogues can silence

[Deleted]

im calling BS on anything you say if you are going to claim rogues can silence

Erm, Garrote?

[Dald]

thread full of trolls
Locks are doing more than fine

Infracted.