Nuclear weapons: bane or boon?

[DraconusIX]

What are your personal opinions on nuclear weapons?

I personally believe nuclear weapons have helped to eliminate many of the wars that have plagued the world. While conflicts still arise, the major powers keep cordial relations between each other under the threat of MAD (mutual assured destruction). While conflicts still arise, they are of a much more local, smaller scale, and infrequent then in history predating the end of WWII and the advent of nuclear weapons.

While they carry the risk, so far they have proven to be the best kind of weapon: a weapon that insures peace and has never been used but twice to prove its existence.

Still, there is risk going forward. With Iran pushing to become a nuclear power (US, England, China, Russia, France have them legally under international arms treaties, Israel, India, and Pakistan illegally, North Korea its debatable if they have successfully tested a weapon, and certainly have no deploy-able weapon) we are possibly looking at multiple nations in the middle east acquiring them as counter measures to guarentee their own safety. The greater number of players - the greater the chance for a nuclear conflict - or maybe an end to more wars.

some think the slow nuclear disarmament between Russia and the US is a step towards the end of all such weapons - but so far the scale downs have had more to do with budgetary reasons then tactical reasons.

I personally believe they make the world a safer place - if the number of holders is limited. They are a subtle threat, but no country with them is ever likely to use them against a country without. International condemnation would take place if they did, regardless of who they were. The EU especially would be likely to embargo any such country that was rash enough to use them out of agression, even the US. They have prevented large-scale wars between the military powers in the world. They MIGHT even prevent another war between India and Pakistan (why I believe only the 5 should have them. If they are used in the next 40 years, imo it will be india/pakistan).

[PizzaSHARK]

Irrelevant. Whether good or not, the knowledge is out there and pretty freely available. Given that, I don't see any reason why efforts should be made to ensure only certain parties should have access to them. It's easy to say we're the most responsible people but that also means that other countries don't ever really get a chance to make their voices heard.

I don't think anyone's really crazy enough to start a nuclear war (okay, maybe SOME people - primarily Iran, North Korea, maybe Israel), but a country without access to nuclear arms can just about be safely ignored by the big boys.

I think the threat of nuclear weapons is a good influence, but I would say effort into that area would be better invested in developing cleaner, safer, and more efficient nuclear power production options rather than newer and improved nuclear weaponry.

[Deleted]

I think the world would've been better off if they have not been invented in the first place, but such wishy-washy thinking doesn't help anyone because they were, infact, introduced.

Yes, I understand the preventive effect of Mutually Assured Destruction, but I think the Destruction part of that outweighs the positives.

[Jackmoves]

Where is the "Pass me the blunt buddy" and "Make love not war" options?

[Philby]

They shouldn't be allowed at all. Although I think that the already existing weapons will never be used, people make mistakes, and a mistake with a nuclear weapon would probably have rather catastrophic effects.

I find myself agreeing with a quote from Denzel Washington's character in the movie Crimson Tide: "...in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

[DraconusIX]

Where is the "Pass me the blunt buddy" and "Make love not war" options?

Alas, as a non-user I lacked the inspiration to think of that as a choice.

[Deleted]

One day when another nuke is going to be used I bet you won't call it peace keeper....

[Mexa]

One day when another nuke is going to be used I bet you won't call it peace keeper....

and i bet u will. I dont think any country would risk just using such a weapon. The risk of what will happen with that contry itself is too big.

[Prancing Minstrel]

They've forced diplomacy between the richest nations for 70 years, they aren't that bad. Stable, civilised countries should be allowed them, ones ran by batshit crazy radicals like North Korea and Iran should be kept well away from them.

[Divada]

I find myself agreeing with a quote from Denzel Washington's character in the movie Crimson Tide: "...in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself."

I personally think that war is always the true enemy but that's a discussion for another thread I think. On-topic: nuclear weaponry is bad, bad, bad. On the list of things that stain humanity as a species it's pretty much right at the top. Einstein knew it.

[Powerogue]

on one hand, we definitely don't want them in the hands of any governments retarded enough to actually use them.

on the other hand, they're frequently used as a defence "don't attack us, we have nukes!" and a lot of more fragile, smaller countries want in on that action so their big scary neighbors can't tell them what to do.

[Simulacrum]

We will never see a total war again (I hope...), between the world powers that have historically been engaged in near-constant warfware with one another for as long as people have been writing things down, probably primarily because of nuclear weapons. Before nukes, you could make a rational argument in favour of war (especially with social influences such as fascism, nationalism, etc), as long as you could think that the benefit outweighs the cost. Today, it will never outweigh the cost, because the cost will be completely devestating even in the best of scenarios.

We also do well to remember that one of the primary causes of war is... the fear that you will be attacked unless you attack first. But if you make it possible for a near-destroyed opponent to still relaliate overwhelmingly, then pre-emptive strikes no longer become rational.

Basically, nuclear weapons have made total war extremely irrational. So far they have been a very good thing. Of course, that may all change if somebody who is wildly out of balance gets access to one, especially considering how it could all spiral out of control. That we have submarines in hte oceans today, that can stay submerged for half a year or more, basically invisible, carrying enough nuclear weapons that if one ceceded from the United States, and somehow found a way to use its weapons, it would be among the top-5 nuclear powers in the world, with the power to cause the deaths of millions. That is utterly terrifying.

[ultimar235]

I don't think any country should actively be seeking to make nuclear weapons even those who already have them.

''Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.'' - part of Emperor Hirohito's surrender speech.

[Simulacrum]

''Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should We continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.'' - part of Emperor Hirohito's surrender speech.

Ironic that he should lament the losses of innocent lives, considering how the destruction of the japan that existed before the end of WW2 was one of the best things that came about as a result of that war. The shit they did in mainland asia easily rivaled what the nazis were doing to their undesireables in europe. Didn't even surrender until after the second bomb, and would seemingly have been happy to sacrifice way more innocent lives fighting to the death, than were lost during the bombings, during a manned invasion. That's some medieval-level of crazyness and hypocricy.

[Onimi]

I don't see any reason to have a weapon that can cause the devastation that these do. Eventually they will lead to the death of all civilization.

[Deleted]

I think they probably helped keep the peace for a long time, but now that the great ideological battle is over(spoiler : capitalism won!) we should probably start scaling things down a tad. For cost savings if nothing else. No need to disarm completely, of course.

[Deleted]

You need some nations, otherwise you could simply have one nation make them in secret and put the whole world to ransom.

If every country had them, then all you would need would be one nutty dictator in the third world to start a war which destroys the planet.

This problem arises again with some of the countries that currently have nuclear weapons. Several of them are in very unstable areas and could easily go very wrong.



That's why the best option is the US, UK, France, Russia, China. All other countries should follow the example of South Africa.

Nuclear Power on the other hand, is an entirely separate (yet linked) issue which requires a lot more work.

[Beavis]

There's a lot of political science research that points to the most stable possible international system being one in which every country has nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, in most of these models the probability of war vs the number of nuclear armed nations takes on a downward opening parabolic shape, meaning that the probability of war will dramatically increase as more nations get the bomb until some saturation point is reached and the probability of war rapidly approaches zero.

EDIT: Note, this is probability of nuclear war.

[Niku]

Oh the irony of thinking that nuclear weapons help make the world a safer place.

[cFortyfive]

Ideally noone should have them - have people fight normal wars again without the possiblity of a catastrophe on global scale.