Another wonderful week in the world of LFR

[DeulonUS]

Stacking the group in one's favor has no real affect on anyone else. Your outrage at the practice has nothing substantial to back it up.

So you are telling me that a guild that ques with 15 people who are rolling on gear for eachother aren't having ANY effect on other people in the raid that need those items? So every time I do LFR on my hunter I should just invite 10 hunter friends to roll on the Madness bow for me, because it will still be fair according to you, right? Myself + 10 people rolling on an item for me VS. 1 person rolling for himself. So I get 11 rolls, he gets 1 roll, but it's still fair according to you?

How would you like to be in a 10 man raid and when every single item drops 9 people roll against you and they all give it to the same person. You have 1 roll, the other person has 9.

How would you like to be in a 25 man raid and when every single item drops 24 people roll against you and they all give it to the same person. You have 1 roll, the other person has 24 rolls.

Chances are you aren't going to win shit, even if your odds are 1/10 or 1/25.

Remove half of those 9 people, or half of those 24 people and you have a better chance at winning, because now you are only rolling against 4 other people in a 10 man (as opposed to 9) or 12 other people in a 25 man (as opposed to 24).

Imagine you are at a casino and there are two Roulette tables side by side. One of them has 1-5 on it, the other has 1-12. Both have the same payout if you pick the number correct. What table would you go to?

I'm assuming you would go to the table marked 1-5, since you have better odds at winning. It's the same in LFR. Would you rather roll against 5 people that need the gear, or 12 people that don't need it, and are just going to vendor it/give it to their friend.

So, my question for you. Why are you supporting people who roll on gear for their friends and screw random players?

There are several ways that this could be solved. I am not a computer genius, I know nothing about coding, so I have no idea exactly how difficult it would be, but here's some ideas;

1. LFR needs the same loot system 5 man heroic dungeons have when it comes to BoE items. If you roll need on an item, it becomes soulbound immediately. You should not be able to roll on items for your friends.

2. Limit group size when queing for LFR to 5. Some people might have an issue with this because they like doing LFR as a guild, which is the reason for #3.

3. Make LFR available as a weekly guild raid (10/25), not something you have to que for. Put in an option similar to normal/heroic that allows you to switch the raid to LFR difficulty and have LFR gear drop.

[pawsz]

They should disable join as group, in lfr

[DarkSoul]

As much as you don't want to accept it, you have exactly 1/x chance of winning anything in LFR, where x is the number of people in the entire raid that can roll against you. You have to beat every single other eligible raider to get something. When you win something, you can do whatever you want with it. Use it, vendor it, or hand it to someone else who was there with you. The fact that someone else has other people willing to hand them a piece of loot is completely irrelevant to the fact that you lost the roll, pure and simple. You can spin it into whatever situation you want in an effort to justify your anger but unless you're willing to queue up with a group of friends that will roll and hand something over to you, then you count on winning the roll to get something and nothing more. If you don't win, better luck next time. Everyone else in LFR helped kill the boss so they're just as entitled to the loot as you are, because the LFR loot system is by necessity simpler than player-created ones as well as being completely impartial.

There are two things that can be done to solve most of the problems the OP is so bothered about. First, modify the LFR looting code to take spec into account so that moonkin don't get the role bonus on agi gear but cats do. If you want Wrath of Unchaining, you're a hunter, cat, enhance shaman or rogue. Second, remove the trade timer from LFR loot. If you win it, you use it or you vendor it. This kills the stacking groups with friends or guildies to roll on loot, which also causes the lfr groups to form more slowly as everyone gets decked out in their LFR gear and has no reason to go back in, because they don't have a reason to roll on the loot anymore. Personally, I'd quit doing LFR altogether if I couldn't roll for friends or guildies who are gearing up alts. I valor cap through other raiding and heroics anyway.

re: the 5 man loot system: That only applies to boe drops. You can trade boss loot within a 5 man group for 2 hours just like you can LFR loot.

[Aquamonkey]

So you are telling me that a guild that ques with 15 people who are rolling on gear for eachother aren't having ANY effect on other people in the raid that need those items? So every time I do LFR on my hunter I should just invite 10 hunter friends to roll on the Madness bow for me, because it will still be fair according to you, right? Myself + 10 people rolling on an item for me VS. 1 person rolling for himself. So I get 11 rolls, he gets 1 roll, but it's still fair according to you?

How would you like to be in a 10 man raid and when every single item drops 9 people roll against you and they all give it to the same person. You have 1 roll, the other person has 9.

How would you like to be in a 25 man raid and when every single item drops 24 people roll against you and they all give it to the same person. You have 1 roll, the other person has 24 rolls.

Chances are you aren't going to win shit, even if your odds are 1/10 or 1/25.

Remove half of those 9 people, or half of those 24 people and you have a better chance at winning, because now you are only rolling against 4 other people in a 10 man (as opposed to 9) or 12 other people in a 25 man (as opposed to 24).

Imagine you are at a casino and there are two Roulette tables side by side. One of them has 1-5 on it, the other has 1-12. Both have the same payout if you pick the number correct. What table would you go to?

I'm assuming you would go to the table marked 1-5, since you have better odds at winning. It's the same in LFR. Would you rather roll against 5 people that need the gear, or 12 people that don't need it, and are just going to vendor it/give it to their friend.

LFR needs the same loot system 5 man heroic dungeons have. If you roll need on an item, it becomes soulbound immediately. You should not be able to roll on items for your friends.

I've already demonstrated that the odds of a solo roller doesn't change. You are assuming that if that premade group of people wasn't there the random people from LFR wouldn't roll against you.

To make your 10/25m examples analogous to LFR, the default state would be everyone rolling on everything for personal use. Now replace those 8/23 people with people who will give the item to 1 person if they win. No change, the outcome is exactly the same for you. This is how it works in LFR. Those 8 people in the premade group rolling for 1 would be relaced by the default of 8 random people rolling for themselves. There is no real difference in the outcomes, only psychological.

---------- Post added 2012-02-21 at 03:03 PM ----------

There is an impact of stacking a single class for an item like the bow that only that class can use. But this is statistically insignificant because RNG in the LFR matchmaking can put you against 9 other random hunters.

[Deleted]

This thread really doesn't have any constructive discussion value and is frankly more of a complaining thread, closing this.