Thoughts on PvP, Arenas and Warzones

[Koalachan]

BW said that they created the Class with bot PvP and PvE in mind, so I guess, there will not have the same problems that WoW did

To be fair on this part though, they said they balanced it for large pvp, not small arena types and 1v1.

[iceberg265]

NO ARENA PLEASE! I am enjoying WZs. Ilum is just a chore.

[Deleted]

NO ARENA PLEASE! I am enjoying WZs. Ilum is just a chore.

Can you be more constructive and tell me what would be wrong if they implant arenas with no unbalanced classes?

[rektbrah]

Arena wont work because all the people that sucked at it in WoW hate it and now play SWtOR

[vizzle]

Arena wont work because all the people that sucked at it in WoW hate it and now play SWtOR

Haha. I can see truth in this.

[Matt0193]

Arena wont work because all the people that sucked at it in WoW hate it and now play SWtOR

But let's be honest, the comp will be: Tank/Healer/DPS and if they make it 4v4, which to me would be the most logical as everything is currently designed for team fights I'm told, another DPS.

Now, those would be Sage/Sorc Healers, Guard/Jugg Tanks, Comm/Merc DPS or Sent/Mara. 4v4 would just be those classes everywhere.

[vizzle]

You would never, ever see a Commando/Mercenary in a 3v3/4v4 arena (probs low rating, but never high). The class is completely useless against competent players.

[jaakkeli]

But let's be honest, the comp will be: Tank/Healer/DPS and if they make it 4v4, which to me would be the most logical as everything is currently designed for team fights I'm told, another DPS.

Now, those would be Sage/Sorc Healers, Guard/Jugg Tanks, Comm/Merc DPS or Sent/Mara. 4v4 would just be those classes everywhere.

Why on earth would you bring a tank to arena when a DPS spec can do the same protection and actually contribute damage? In arena, a Jugg tank would be the most pathetically useless spec in the whole game.

A Commando/Merc? Completely useless easily trained class that cannot do any damage whatsoever against good players.

I'd like arenas just because I'd expect my Powertech and Shadow to be about the most OP classes in it but it's just not going to happen without some large fundamental changes to game design (though IMO they should nerf taunting/guarding when not fully tank specced even for battlegrounds as it's going to be a ridiculous balance problem for rated play).

[rektbrah]

Also forgot to add, the classes are pretty homogenized so it will be pretty dull.

[Fannyd]

You would never, ever see a Commando/Mercenary in a 3v3/4v4 arena (probs low rating, but never high). The class is completely useless against competent players.

That's not really true. We offer so much in positional utility, no class has as many knockbacks as we do - any map with a z-axis means we can play bodyguard to a healer, whilst doing top-end damage

[vizzle]

That's not really true. We offer so much in positional utility, no class has as many knockbacks as we do - any map with a z-axis means we can play bodyguard to a healer, whilst doing top-end damage

Commandos/Mercs are good in BGs, but if it was an enclosed arena that was 3v3/4v4/5v5, any smart team would know to "zerg the Merc" as soon as the gates open. All you need is 1 melee to focus on you and you're fucked.

The fact that we do so much damage when we're left alone is the reason why Comms/Mercs would be the first target, because we're so easy to lock down.

[Deleted]

Commandos/Mercs are good in BGs, but if it was an enclosed arena that was 3v3/4v4/5v5, any smart team would know to "zerg the Merc" as soon as the gates open. All you need is 1 melee to focus on you and you're fucked.

The fact that we do so much damage when we're left alone is the reason why Comms/Mercs would be the first target, because we're so easy to lock down.

Yes, but you'd be in an another team and not alone. That means heals and Guard, plus taunts. Mercs don't die as fast as people think when they are playing in a group setting and they offer enough utility. Tough I do agree that they are very easy to lock down 1v1.

[Gerion]

Yes, but you'd be in an another team and not alone. That means heals and Guard, plus taunts. Mercs don't die as fast as people think when they are playing in a group setting and they offer enough utility. Tough I do agree that they are very easy to lock down 1v1.

Having played a BM Commando and a rank 40 something Scoundrel I'd have to agree with vizzle. In an arena setting with top tier PVP players, DPS Commandos would get shut down very easily due to the fact that they need to be stationary as well as needing cast timers to use Grav Round. A combination of interrupt/stun/interrupt effectively shuts you down until dead or a teammate's death. I know this because I've been on the receiving end as well as the dealing end. They have some durability sure but that does not stop them from just running around being useless. If you're an Assault specced Commando then all it takes is a cleanse and there goes 3 ammo worth of Incendiary Round not to mention that you have zero burst.

[Fannyd]

Having played a BM Commando and a rank 40 something Scoundrel I'd have to agree with vizzle. In an arena setting with top tier PVP players, DPS Commandos would get shut down very easily due to the fact that they need to be stationary as well as needing cast timers to use Grav Round. A combination of interrupt/stun/interrupt effectively shuts you down until dead or a teammate's death. I know this because I've been on the receiving end as well as the dealing end. They have some durability sure but that does not stop them from just running around being useless. If you're an Assault specced Commando then all it takes is a cleanse and there goes 3 ammo worth of Incendiary Round not to mention that you have zero burst.

Positioning.

[vizzle]

Positioning.

Unless every single arena (if they were to implement arena) is Huttball, then no amount of positioning will save you.

Stop thinking about warzones, arenas would probably be much smaller.

[Deleted]

Having played a BM Commando and a rank 40 something Scoundrel I'd have to agree with vizzle. In an arena setting with top tier PVP players, DPS Commandos would get shut down very easily due to the fact that they need to be stationary as well as needing cast timers to use Grav Round. A combination of interrupt/stun/interrupt effectively shuts you down until dead or a teammate's death. I know this because I've been on the receiving end as well as the dealing end. They have some durability sure but that does not stop them from just running around being useless. If you're an Assault specced Commando then all it takes is a cleanse and there goes 3 ammo worth of Incendiary Round not to mention that you have zero burst.

I cannot take your points seriously if you say that Assault/Pyro has zero burst. That's just... wrong. Burst (and mobility) is all they have.

But anyway, I think one of the good thing about this game in PvP is that CCs and interrupts are on reasonable cooldowns, that means if the Commando is receiving all the CCs and interrupts than your healer is pretty much free-casting. If the healer is on a long CC, you have enough durability to stay until he's out (granted you are guarded since your healer doesn't need it). I'm not saying Commando/Mercs would be the best Arena DPS class (probably not since Sorcs have all they have but more aside from Heavy Armor), but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be viable. On another point -- even if it was useless as DPS -- their heal spec is probably the BEST one suited for it.

[Deleted]

Please no Arenas. Just no. There is no fair competition in an MMO with small numbers.

Also I LOVE Huttball and the strategic use of the terrain it allows, so I am all for more burning platforms and pits and also different levels!

It seems to me as I you just want "WoW-PvP" for SWTOR, but I personally don´t like WoW-PvP. (And this is coming from a former Gladiator, mind you).

[Fannyd]

Unless every single arena (if they were to implement arena) is Huttball, then no amount of positioning will save you.

Stop thinking about warzones, arenas would probably be much smaller.

True, they'd be smaller, but they'd have to have a z-axis element, as many classes rely on that to survive.

[vizzle]

True, they'd be smaller, but they'd have to have a z-axis element, as many classes rely on that to survive.

One grapple from a Powertech and you're dead.

Commandos are horrible for arena, there's really no way to get out of it. They're not built for it. All dps classes would be horrible for arena, Powertechs/Jugs/Assassins would dominate, with healers.

[Gerion]

I cannot take your points seriously if you say that Assault/Pyro has zero burst. That's just... wrong. Burst (and mobility) is all they have.

But anyway, I think one of the good thing about this game in PvP is that CCs and interrupts are on reasonable cooldowns, that means if the Commando is receiving all the CCs and interrupts than your healer is pretty much free-casting. If the healer is on a long CC, you have enough durability to stay until he's out (granted you are guarded since your healer doesn't need it). I'm not saying Commando/Mercs would be the best Arena DPS class (probably not since Sorcs have all they have but more aside from Heavy Armor), but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be viable. On another point -- even if it was useless as DPS -- their heal spec is probably the BEST one suited for it.

Assault burst? Really?

They rely on two dots (Incendiary/Plasma Cell), a 3-4 second timed grenade, and High Impact Bolt. The dots deal mediocre damage until execute range and are easily cleansed by Commando/Scoundrels. That leaves Assault Plastique and HIB which both deal fairly good damage. However if you're bursting down a healer, you have to hope and pray that your HIB crits and that a quick Full Auto will proc Ionic Accelerator to reset your HIB, otherwise you're stuck either Hammer Shotting or trying to use Charged Bolts while they heal to full. Compared to the Grav Round x3 + Demo Round, Assault Spec's burst is worse. The benefit in switching to Assault is the increase in mobility over Gunnery.

I've played Assault spec, it's good for Warzones because people are brainless. I have literally won games where we were destined to lose because I simply unload Incendiary Rounds on everyone before I die to a superior team and they're too stupid (or they're just all Inquisitors so they can't cleanse) and they can literally never touch the door before I'm back setting everybody on fire.

Also, it takes one melee to shut down a Gunnery Commando unless the other team literally blows all their CCs on him like idiots. The other teammates can go after other opponents.On my Scoundrel, Arsenal Mercs get at most one Tracer Missile off in between the interrupt, Dirty Kick, interrupt before they're dead.