More info on Destro in Mists, very interesting

[crabmousse]

Demo 4.0 > AFF 3.0 > All... old feral wasn't close and Shadow;p is such a joke....

I played Affliction main in naxx25 when you could immolate and UA at the same time. changed to Feral in ICC, so much harder.

[Jessicka]

why are you all talking about a slow cast?

lvl 86 Talent: Destructive Influence
Your demon's attack reduce the casttime of your next soul fire by X sec. Stacks up Y times.

We don't know how this works x = 1 sek, y = 4 stacks = instant

The example they give shows using SF while your Mana regenerates - you wont regenerate much mana through an instant cast (the Blue even suggests it'll be a couple of Soul Fires). The posts making analogies to Arcane don't feel too wide of the mark.

[ComputerNerd]

Just a typo (1 ember vs 10 embers) - if Emberstorm gave you 26.4% additional + 3.3% per mastery. At 17.26 mastery, you'd have a Soul Fire that dealt 84% additional damage. Stack 3 of those back to back and you're doing some sick damage.

But because of being back-to-back the 2 subsequent ones would have their cast-time doubled thefore an 84% increase in damage with a 100% increase in cast time would be worse, not better.

Therefore if there is a reason to cast multiple soul fires subsequently or within a short time frame, then it would have to be for some reason other than damage.

[Deleted]

Why did they choose soulfire instead of chaos bolt? Seems like a really stupid decision that they will most likely change, the chaos bolt graphic is great and soulfire's is crap.

[xskarma]

But because of being back-to-back the 2 subsequent ones would have their cast-time doubled thefore an 84% increase in damage with a 100% increase in cast time would be worse, not better.

Therefore if there is a reason to cast multiple soul fires subsequently or within a short time frame, then it would have to be for some reason other than damage.

With the way Blizz described it, I'm not entirely sure that the tooltip as shown in the calculator is just the Demo incarnation of Soul Fire and that the "below 25%" part might just be for Demo. With all the small mistakes and things not yet filled in and everything subject to change, we might keep in mind that Soul Fire behaves differently for the different specs and that we see now in the talent calculator is just a wrong tooltip.

Then again the Blue might just have interpreted what the Dev's told them wrong and gave a borked example of what we will be able to do.

[huth]

The example they give shows using SF while your Mana regenerates - you wont regenerate much mana through an instant cast (the Blue even suggests it'll be a couple of Soul Fires). The posts making analogies to Arcane don't feel too wide of the mark.

On the other hand, he also assumed that after 2 SFs your mana is almost completely full, while beforehand, it was almost entirely empty.
That would mean you regenerate almost your entire mana pool over 12 seconds or possibly less, if xskarma is right.

[Jo7e]

I don't know why so amny ppl are like "HEY I DON'T WANT TO BURN", the whole reason for embers to "burn" you, is w/o that, you would stack 126893126893 embers, and 1shot somebody with only one soulfire, that doesnt make sense... and its boring

Also, 1 ember = 0.33% max hp per sec, that means that ONLY if you have 3 embers (that you shouldn't), you will burn from 100% to 0% in 100 seconds!!, you shouldn't be running aroung jumping and doing nothing for comsume that embers (you can heal 20%hp yourself now with 1 ember *could be less i think*)

Conflagrate should trigger backdraft (not emberstorm), remember that blizz said that they'll give us some skills in lvl 10, when we chose our spec (that would be soul leech, chaos bolt *PLZPLZPLZPLZ*, and backdraft) so we shouldn't have so many problems

And our pet can reduce the cast time of soulfire, which is our main nuke

What really bothers me, is our tier4 talent, now THAT will literally BURN our arses faster than the enemy, blizz should really think in another way of those talents, or at least tune down the numbers a bit

PS: also dark soul for +crit% <3

[Grizelda]

I'm interested in how mastery, haste and crit will pan out.

If they make Backdraft affect Soul Fire, then haste might take a backseat and mastery and crit might be king. Although I'm not thoroughly convinced how crit will be stronger than mastery since SF will automatically crit, but it might be crit=mastery. I don't know. I just don't want to juggle 3 stats, so hopefully, Backdraft will affect SF.

Soulfire would always crit, but the tool tip mentions your crit rating will add extra damage to your soulfire.

I wish there was more that you could use embers for. A cleave, a heal or a nuke. meh.

And ya, I wish they tied it to chaos bolt instead. Cooler graphic.

[Xelnath]

But because of being back-to-back the 2 subsequent ones would have their cast-time doubled thefore an 84% increase in damage with a 100% increase in cast time would be worse, not better.

Therefore if there is a reason to cast multiple soul fires subsequently or within a short time frame, then it would have to be for some reason other than damage.

I'm confident Destruction's Soul Fire cast time never goes above 4 sec.

[Straamibuu]

As with what some others have said, I hope the gfx for chaos bolt doesn't fade away into the mists of time :<

[Jessicka]

On the other hand, he also assumed that after 2 SFs your mana is almost completely full, while beforehand, it was almost entirely empty.
That would mean you regenerate almost your entire mana pool over 12 seconds or possibly less, if xskarma is right.

That does sound somewhere in the right ballpark yeah. That doesn't really change the fact that we'll be casting long Soul Fires on occasion with a purpose akin to an Arcane Mage's Evocate. It's like the worst of both worlds.

[Zinnin]

That does sound somewhere in the right ballpark yeah. That doesn't really change the fact that we'll be casting long Soul Fires on occasion with a purpose akin to an Arcane Mage's Evocate. It's like the worst of both worlds.

I think the whole 'dead time' is like having to hard cast soul fire on top of dealing with evocate, and then having to wait for energy as much as a feral druid. ... sounds like the worst direction warlocks have gone since they decided that sacrificing your pet and spamming shadow bolt was an interesting rotation. Hell..spamming shadow bolt 100% of the time would still be more fun that having to wait for mana to regen.

[Deleted]

As with what some others have said, I hope the gfx for chaos bolt doesn't fade away into the mists of time :<

yeah me too 8(

[smegdawg]

I'm confident Destruction's Soul Fire cast time never goes above 4 sec.

agreed.

Here's hoping the the First Soul Fire we cast using the ember doesn't eat up the stacks of Destructive Influence.

Are we interpreting destructive influence correctly though? Maybe the X is a flat 4 secs and the Y is the number of times your Soul Fire is reduced by 4 seconds.

Example:
We enter our "Mana Regen" phase and pop off the first instant Ember'd(?) Soul fire. The Cast time doubles and then our stacks of DI start being accounted for, reducing what would be an 8 second cast back down to its base 4 second cast(possibly more or less depending on what X equals. after we run out of stacks of DI we return to our Ember building phase.

[Deleted]

While I'm overall psyched about MoP, I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to implement a mana-regen factor into the destrolock. Didn't they (blizzard) recieve quite a bit of flack for arcane mages and their rotation already? I mean, looking at all lock specs atm, including the sometimes called "clunky" ISF playstyle of destrolocks, if anything we're not lacking complexity in our rotation.

Adding mana management to the rotation is obviously a way to make it more engaging/complex, why would they switch the current complex-enough rotations for a mana management one though? Sounds positively odd!

[Jessicka]

It's a complete U-Turn from an infinite mana, GCD capped model to an uncapped high resource management model yes.

[Obsidian9]

While I'm overall psyched about MoP, I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to implement a mana-regen factor into the destrolock. Didn't they (blizzard) recieve quite a bit of flack for arcane mages and their rotation already? I mean, looking at all lock specs atm, including the sometimes called "clunky" ISF playstyle of destrolocks, if anything we're not lacking complexity in our rotation.

Adding mana management to the rotation is obviously a way to make it more engaging/complex, why would they switch the current complex-enough rotations for a mana management one though? Sounds positively odd!

Remember they are also simplifying the general rotation. So it is merely a trade of one type of complexity for another (though odds are it will end up simpler). One advantage to this is it further differentiates the three specs of warlocks.

However it also has the inherent risk of being too simple, boring, laden with long cast times, too similar to arcane mages. Given our current information and the potential for change it is unknown how many of these issues are present now and how many will go live.

[Kildragon]

The example they give shows using SF while your Mana regenerates - you wont regenerate much mana through an instant cast (the Blue even suggests it'll be a couple of Soul Fires). The posts making analogies to Arcane don't feel too wide of the mark.

Exactly, I have no problem with the ember system as a resource system that we have to manage carefully, since it sounds engaging. Casters standing around wanding stuff while waiting for mana is boring. Casting a 4 second soulfire and then an 8 second soul fire in order to get mana back to 90% from 0% is boring. It also makes Destro the most worthless PvP spec imaginable. Right now Demo is bad in PvP due to the 2.2 second SB's, but this is on a whole other level.

[Deleted]

Remember they are also simplifying the general rotation. So it is merely a trade of one type of complexity for another (though odds are it will end up simpler). One advantage to this is it further differentiates the three specs of warlocks.

However it also has the inherent risk of being too simple, boring, laden with long cast times, too similar to arcane mages. Given our current information and the potential for change it is unknown how many of these issues are present now and how many will go live.

My point exactly. They're trading one type of complexity for mana management, obviously they must've considered arcane mages to be an example of a fulfilling rotation? Otherwise, why would they incorporate a similar resource system under another name?

[Xelnath]

It's a complete U-Turn from an infinite mana, GCD capped model to an uncapped high resource management model yes.

This is 100% correct. It IS a U turn. There are currently 3 Infinite Mana, GCD capped specs.

Now there are 2. Would a different spec be a better fit for a non-GCD capped spec?